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Re:Facebook was down by Rygu on Thursday June 19, 2014 @04:01AM (#7914949)
Are their APIs and Sign in with Facebook, also down? That's pretty messed up for all the sites that rely on their Sign in.
Re:Facebook was down by grey-area on Thursday June 19, 2014 @04:33AM (#7915179)
This is just one of the reasons you shouldn't build your business on someone else's platform - others include the possibility that they'll charge you for the service later, cut you out of a relationship with your own customers, shut you down for their own reasons, require you to use their services like a store to the exclusion of all others, copy your idea and crush you by giving it away for free, squeeze your margins until your business is no longer viable, or simply make your business impossible because of indifference to your requirements.

That the service may be unreliable and it's one more point of failure is just one of the reasons why it's a bad idea to depend on FB (or Twitter, or G+ login) for your logins, and this is why their attempt to subsume the web with corporate corrals will ultimately fail.

Re:Facebook was down by dasil003 on Thursday June 19, 2014 @07:41AM (#7915593)
I agree with you in principle, however you are ignoring the business value the external auth provides. Specifically there is a large subset of potential users who can not be bothered to sign up for your site via email, but will login with Facebook.

If you want to take advantage of this market then there are ways to use Login with Facebook without being wholly dependent. Basically if you have full account management, but you allow third-party authentication that ties into that account, especially allowing multiple OAuth providers to be linked to a single of your internal accounts (eg. see how Stack Overflow works), you can significantly mitigate the downside.

The purist and old-school web head and open standards guy in me hates it, but you can't argue with the business case for it.

Re:Facebook was down by drewblay on Thursday June 19, 2014 @08:23AM (#7915681)
>there is a large subset of potential users who can not be bothered to sign up for your site via email

There is a simple solution to this. STOP ASKING USERS TO SIGN UP! Do your REALLY need to collect the users e-mail? Do REALLY need them to have an account at all? If you do, then when they register don't ask for their e-mail address if it isn't necessary, or at least make the e-mail address an optional field. Hacker News never asked for my e-mail, because there is no need for them to have it. I probably wouldn't have made an account if it did require an e-mail address.

Re:Facebook was down by grey-area on Thursday June 19, 2014 @08:26AM (#7915685)
Sure, it's a trade-off, we probably just disagree about the level of risk involved and the benefits gained.

As you say with FB login there are ways to mitigate that risk, but to take one example - if FB charge for the service in future at 0.01c per use, many of your users will still want to login with FB because it's easier for them, and you'll be stuck with the bill. This happened with sites using google maps in 2012 when they started charging - each of these decisions has to be weighed up individually as a risk, but I think login is too important to delegate to another site and a significant addition of complexity and risk.

Re:Facebook was down by dasil003 on Thursday June 19, 2014 @06:24PM (#7918609)
It's not one level of risk-reward, you need to take a look at your specific case to make the call. Formulating a blanket opinion about this outside of a specific context is not wise.

That said, your example doesn't demonstrate much risk at all. What are the incentives for FB to start charging for this? It just doesn't make any sense for them to give up that data and that control to try to squeeze existing site operators out of a buck. I mean, never say never, but the risk is much less than it was with Google Maps where you always had to be asking what Google was getting out of this expensive and difficult-to-build-your-own service.

Re:Facebook was down by sprite on Thursday June 19, 2014 @08:04AM (#7915635)
Facebook deleted my personal account and disabled all my fb API keys for releasing an app for Instagram that they claim violates the Instagram tos. The app has nothing to do with Facebook. This was done with no warning.
Re:Facebook was down by ZenPro on Thursday June 19, 2014 @09:08AM (#7915834)
...apart from them owning Instagram.

It's naive to assume that a company will defend their subsidiary. I am not condoning how they treated you but your assertion of the app has nothing to do with Facebook is incredulous.

Re:Facebook was down by mjburgess on Thursday June 19, 2014 @04:53AM (#7915248)
What are you talking about? Everyone has to depend on some infrastruture to provide their service. I'd imagine pretty much every hosting platform (from amazon to dreamhost) has less reliability than facebook.
Re:Facebook was down by grey-area on Thursday June 19, 2014 @07:02AM (#7915521)
Hosting is fungible and should be easy to change, a reliance on a platform like FB or Twitter say is not.

Also, reliability is one factor out of several, it is not the only, or even the primary, risk with using something like FB login.

Re:Facebook was down by jacquesm on Thursday June 19, 2014 @05:01AM (#7915273)
Sure, but the more external components you tie in to the bigger the chance that one of them will be down. So you try to keep such dependencies to an absolute minimum otherwise you end up with the joint downtime of all those services.
Re:Facebook was down by rgo on Thursday June 19, 2014 @06:31AM (#7915457)
External dependencies increase failure points, no argue there.

It depends on your line of business, but if you compare the benefits of making user signup faster, lowering acquisition barriers and getting access to the social graph of users against the risks of depending on one of the top infrastructures in the cloud, I think it may well be worth the trouble.

Re:Facebook was down by mjburgess on Thursday June 19, 2014 @05:53AM (#7915383)
No, that's not how risk works. Centralization of services to a single platform is more risky.
Re:Facebook was down by akkishore on Thursday June 19, 2014 @06:04AM (#7915410)
Your risk increases with more moving parts that you introduce into your product. It does not decrease.

Probably you are talking about redundancy where, I agree, it does go down.

Re:Facebook was down by KayEss on Thursday June 19, 2014 @06:50AM (#7915499)
You're both right, if you talk about different sorts of risk. There's far more chance that you'll get authentication wrong than Facebook -- and that's a risk. It's probably more likely that your authentication service will go down than Facebook's. But if it's all yours then Facebook has no control over you, so that's one less risk.

As for which risk is the most important risk, well, that's up to your business to decide. But nothing is without risk, all you can do is choose which to expose yourself to.

Re:Facebook was down by thejosh on Thursday June 19, 2014 @05:31AM (#7915337)
(S)he's talking about if you rely on an API/Third Party service over hosting.

You can packup your application and move it to Amazon/Rackspace/DigitalOcean, but if you use Facebook login exclusively or use a third party API for a core service and they decide to change (as GP suggests), you're fucked.

Re:Facebook was down by babuskov on Thursday June 19, 2014 @08:50AM (#7915753)
As with all other stuff: it depends.

Using it for logins is really questionable. But if you are, for example, building a game for Facebook, it gives you many advantages, so occasional downtime is not really the biggest issue. Let's check the things you wrote about in gaming context:

- charging for the service later TRUE (viral is dead, you pay for the ads to get new players in)

- cut you out of a relationship with your own customer - somewhat FALSE (you can request e-mails from your customers, and have a direct contact afterwards). Even with fan pages, they are not cuting you out, but merely asking to pay to get your message to them

- require you to use their store TRUE, but every other platform does the same

- copy your idea and give it for free. FALSE - Facebook never made a game AFAIK

- squezee you margins. TRUE. I do notice that Cost Per Install for my games is getting higher the more I advertize, and that it suddenly jumped from about $0.15 per install to $0.50 per install a few days ago - about the same time when they switched to the new payment user interface.

Re:Facebook was down by V-2 on Thursday June 19, 2014 @05:32AM (#7915343)
"copy your idea and crush you by giving it away for free" - this is a possibility no matter what you do
Re:Facebook was down by jacquesm on Thursday June 19, 2014 @05:36AM (#7915351)
Sure, but by giving them your users log-ins you are telling them how popular you are so they can sit back and wait until you reach a certain threshold or velocity. Why give a would-be competitor extra information?
Re:Facebook was down by pjc50 on Thursday June 19, 2014 @05:15AM (#7915299)
If your business is "facebook games", it's rather hard not to build it on Facebook.
Re:Facebook was down by pling on Thursday June 19, 2014 @07:41AM (#7915594)
If your business is facebook games, about all that happens if you go down is "meh". Is that a good business model?

Probably not.

Re:Facebook was down by gasda on Thursday June 19, 2014 @04:05AM (#7914982)
Maybe it will stay down long enough so sites stop requiring facebook to interact with the site.
Re:Facebook was down by newbrict on Thursday June 19, 2014 @05:00AM (#7915268)
I feel you
Re:Facebook was down by homakov on Thursday June 19, 2014 @04:51AM (#7915238)
This is another reason why OAuth should be on a separate subdomain. (First reason is XSS on facebook.com which can grant any permissions to any app.)
Re:Facebook was down by nostromo on Thursday June 19, 2014 @04:04AM (#7914971)
Yes.

OAuth dialogs don't load and the graph API is down too.

Re:Facebook was down by rodgerd on Thursday June 19, 2014 @04:15AM (#7915064)
"Why write your own login? Just use Facebook!" is not looking like sound advice right about now.
Re:Facebook was down by orf on Thursday June 19, 2014 @04:19AM (#7915088)
Why? Because of 10 minutes of downtime?
Re:Facebook was down by Gurrewe on Thursday June 19, 2014 @04:21AM (#7915101)
It's 25 minutes of downtime now. :)
Re:Facebook was down by jacquesm on Thursday June 19, 2014 @05:37AM (#7915356)
Apologies, I missed the 'upvote' and hit the 'downvote' instead.
Re:Facebook was down by blueskin_ on Thursday June 19, 2014 @04:24AM (#7915116)
Reason #12,506 not to use an external site for login.
Re:Facebook was down by cpayne on Thursday June 19, 2014 @04:35AM (#7915184)
I can tell you my website goes down far more frequently (my fault) than Facebook's does
Re:Facebook was down by jacquesm on Thursday June 19, 2014 @05:02AM (#7915275)
So now you're down when you make a mistake and when facebook makes a mistake.
Re:Facebook was down by feider on Thursday June 19, 2014 @05:22AM (#7915316)
there is a bug in your logic. Correct operator is "or".
Re:Facebook was down by jacquesm on Thursday June 19, 2014 @05:35AM (#7915348)
Programming use of logical operators and regular speech is not compatible. I agree that this is a bug in the English language but this is a forum, not a computer program.
Re:Facebook was down by blueskin_ on Thursday June 19, 2014 @06:59AM (#7915517)
I'm having a bit of trouble finding the maintainer. Possibly OED, but they don't have much in the way of API documentation and I still haven't found the revision history for the source to submit a patch.
Re:Facebook was down by acheron on Thursday June 19, 2014 @08:01AM (#7915628)
Let me know when you find them. Someone removed Þ from the alphabet a few revisions back but I've got a patch to add it back in.
Re:Facebook was down by partomniscient on Thursday June 19, 2014 @06:43AM (#7915484)
I too would like to deprecate 'or' in favour of 'ior' and 'xor'. Not sure whether A. A. Milne would like it though?

Today's unofficial but fun to pronounce related word is "specificity".

Re:Facebook was down by waterhouse on Thursday June 19, 2014 @05:44AM (#7915369)
In this case "and" means "in addition to". "when you make a mistake" describes one set of situations, "when facebook makes a mistake" describes another set, and the "and" acts as a union operator. Nothing illogical here, though you might argue that English is ambiguous.
Re:Facebook was down by theop on Thursday June 19, 2014 @06:04AM (#7915409)
Even if I don't know you I fell pretty confident that is more probable that you are messing up with the login than FB. So the changes of a downtime are lower. The business value it's another topic...
Re:Facebook was down by chintan100 on Thursday June 19, 2014 @04:03AM (#7914962)
Could not use Connect with Facebook in an iOS app. So their APIs seem to be down as well.
Re:Facebook was down by mts_ on Thursday June 19, 2014 @04:05AM (#7914981)
Yeah, it seems to be everything.

Also affects the like buttons across the web, see the error on an old TC article here: http://cl.ly/image/2Q3V1X240D12

Re:Facebook was down by gprasanth on Thursday June 19, 2014 @04:04AM (#7914977)
Re:Facebook was down by travem on Thursday June 19, 2014 @04:07AM (#7914992)
Looks like Facebook website plugins like the comments on TechCrunch are also unavailable.
Re:Facebook was down by montag on Thursday June 19, 2014 @04:04AM (#7914976)
Sign in with Facebook is down at the moment.