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Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by fennecfoxen on Thursday June 12, 2014 @07:19PM (#7886589)
Coming next: creationist interpretation of this in a Biblical flood narrative with reference to "opening up the fountains of the deep".
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by melling on Thursday June 12, 2014 @07:32PM (#7886639)
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by contingencies on Thursday June 12, 2014 @10:03PM (#7887117)
It's worth pointing out that fundamentally, humans like to live ... and live more successfully ... in places where their needs are met. That generally means ample food - plants and animals - and ample fresh water.

These generally co-occur in water rich areas, such as low-lying coastal regions or flat, regularly inundated river plains. Thus, flooding in relatively populated early centers of civilization is likely to be a common experience across human cultures, purely by the geographical reality of proximity to water.

Furthermore, recording such events is natural in a literate civilization since the destruction a nontrivial event might cause against food, shelter and population would affect all echelons of society.

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by chc on Thursday June 12, 2014 @07:40PM (#7886670)
AFAIK the Epic of Gilgamesh does not include the "fountains of the deep" aspect of the Noah story that's relevant here, and also there aren't a lot of Sumerian creationists around.
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by melling on Thursday June 12, 2014 @07:57PM (#7886726)
I was simply pointing out that there are many flood stories in many cultures. I added another link for more references. I just know that Gilgamesh is one of the oldest. Many cultures, including the some Indians in North America, have incorporated it into their mythology.
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by ars on Thursday June 12, 2014 @10:18PM (#7887155)
> I was simply pointing out that there are many flood stories in many cultures

Being in many cultures isn't evidence against the story, as it seems you are trying to imply.

It could simply mean there was one huge flood and lots of cultures recorded it.

I am aware there is no scientific mechanism to cause a worldwide flood, this is explicitly about divine intervention. (i.e. a miracle, not creationism pseudo science).

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by nitrogen on Friday June 13, 2014 @12:23AM (#7887424)
Everything that happens on a geological scale leaves geological evidence. There is no such evidence for a global flood. It's not just the mechanism for causing the flood that's missing, but any sign of it whatsoever. I grew up learning about and believing in a global flood, and confronting the hard truth that there is no evidence for a flood was an important part of my intellectual development.

However, since there are reasons other than reason and evidence for people to believe in a flood, no amount of reasoning or evidence will change those beliefs, so I propose we focus on the tantalizing science fiction implications instead.

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by crusso on Friday June 13, 2014 @09:47AM (#7888796)
no amount of reasoning or evidence will change those beliefs

It worked for you, didn't it? It also worked for me. That's two of us. There are more. Keep the uh... "faith".

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by waps on Sunday June 15, 2014 @06:45AM (#7894970)
There is, however, plenty of evidence for a huge, huge flood at about the correct time. About 1/3 of the Black Sea was dry land until about 6000 BC [1]. The theory goes that it went from essentially dry land with forests and cities and ... to open sea in as little as 2 months, which can't have been a pleasant experience for the inhabitants.

Also note that floods don't simply go in a straight line from A->B. In practice because towns are built on the more stable land, what you'd see happen is pretty much the worst possible scenario : the water would surround cities, first making most roads unusable (non hardened ones because they become mud, hardened ones because some parts of them collapse). Then the water level would rise until nothing remains above the water level. (I've got some experience living in Northwest Europe, and every 20 years or so you get introduced to this problem firsthand)

Of course, even though the affected area was huge, it was still a local phenomenon.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by nitrogen on Monday June 16, 2014 @08:40PM (#7902287)
It is indeed fascinating to study possible true origins of flood myths and other myths, but it's important to remember that finding a possibly true local origin doesn't provide evidence for a miraculous flood, whether global or local.
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by bashinator on Friday June 13, 2014 @02:08PM (#7890111)
At the time of those flood myths, "global" would have referred to a moderate portion of the middle east and north africa.
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by tinco on Friday June 13, 2014 @09:48AM (#7888801)
The absence of evidence is not proof of the contrary. I am an atheist and I laud your dedication to evidence based reason, but don't go overboard and ignore things many people believe are true, often they do for a reason.

That said, if there never was such a flood there would likely be evidence that it never happened.

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by knodi123 on Friday June 13, 2014 @10:16AM (#7888937)
I'm curious what you think "evidence that it never happened" would look like, except for looking like the absence of evidence?

What would evidence that there was never a global flood look like? One example might be "lack of a global species disruption in the fossil layer". But that's just absence of evidence again.

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by jcromartie on Friday June 13, 2014 @02:10PM (#7890121)
You're talking about the idea of the Genesis flood, occurring some 4500 years ago, drastically rearranging the recently-created Earth's geology, wiping out every living thing except for the few that survived on a boat that landed on a single mountain in what is modern-day Turkey?

I think there are some predictions you could make there. However every single one of them is just so far divorced from what we observe that they aren't even worth enumerating.

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by scott_s on Friday June 13, 2014 @10:47AM (#7889082)
Absence of evidence is not "proof" of the contrary, but it is evidence of the contrary.

"Proof" is a complicated word. People typically take it to mean "slam-dunk, 100%, without-a-doubt proves the case." But little in science ever works like that. Math, sure, where you can prove things analytically. But when trying to "prove" things about the universe, you have to collect bodies of evidence, and see how well that evidence matches expectations.

So, when you go out looking for something, and despite your best efforts, cannot find it, then that may not "prove" that something did not happen, but it is good evidence in support that it did not.

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by marcosdumay on Friday June 13, 2014 @11:24AM (#7889279)
That depends entirely on how hard you looked.

Despite centuries of scientists looking hard for evidence of it (and knowing what kind of evidence they are looking for, adn being able to get it), they've been unable to get any. That's as strong evidence of the inexistence of a phenomenun as you can get.

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by Gregorein on Friday June 13, 2014 @05:35AM (#7887983)
No proof? Go check sedimentary layers in affrica / Arabia / golden triangle
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by espadrine on Friday June 13, 2014 @07:08AM (#7888154)
> Go check sedimentary layers in affrica / Arabia / golden triangle

1. Why only those? Isn't it global?

2. This comment has no value without an academic paper to reference. If nobody has studied it, this is just hot air. If someone has, you are expected to link to it in these lands.

3. It's "Africa". Not "affrica".

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by kaonashi on Thursday June 12, 2014 @11:29PM (#7887321)
Probably has more to do with the first cultures that developed agriculture living near large rivers.
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by PhasmaFelis on Friday June 13, 2014 @12:14AM (#7887404)
IIRC, there is some evidence of a very large flood in...western Asia, I think?...caused by a highland sea breaking through a natural dam and emptying into a lowland area, right around the time that humans were starting to keep histories. It was big enough to affect multiple distinct cultures at the time. There's a theory that that's the origin of the ubiquitous Great Flood stories.
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by will_work4tears on Friday June 13, 2014 @09:47AM (#7888793)
Also the Missoula Floods[0], though it's possible nobody was really around, and if there was, probably not many ( assuming humans started migrating ~18,000 years ago, it's possible some were there)

[0]-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_Floods

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by waps on Sunday June 15, 2014 @06:49AM (#7894973)
He might mean this, since the time period is a bit more correct : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by cholmon on Friday June 13, 2014 @07:01AM (#7888137)
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by seanmcdirmid on Friday June 13, 2014 @11:50AM (#7889415)
> also there aren't a lot of Sumerian creationists around

Given Christianity has roots in Judaism and Judaism probably has some roots in Sumerian religion, I'm not sure if you could say that. Religions evolve from other religions, and in a geographic area, are likely to have common ancestors.

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by fennecfoxen on Thursday June 12, 2014 @07:39PM (#7886661)
Yes, but American protestant fundamentalists looking for something that superficially looks like it might theoretically maybe back up their literal interpretations of the Bible will care about this announcement in a way that most of the Babylonians won't. :P
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by Kaizyn on Thursday June 12, 2014 @09:06PM (#7886945)
Why would this be unreasonable? If I were to propose a scientific theory and a discovery were made that provided evidence that the theory were correct, we would call it good science. Why is it considered anything less to point out that the Bible made a statement that is strengthened by the same discovery?
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by pjscott on Thursday June 12, 2014 @09:24PM (#7886999)
Water trapped in crystals as hydroxide ions far underground do not exactly constitute a gushing source of floodwater. You'd need divine intervention to get a flood from this stuff -- and if you're already bringing the Hand of God into it, do you really need a geological mechanism to complete the story?
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by smoyer on Thursday June 12, 2014 @08:35PM (#7886863)
There have been quite a few times that science has confirmed accounts in the Tanakh and New Testament ... large portions of both are dedicated to conveying history regardless of whether you believe in the spiritual aspects described.
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by glenra on Friday June 13, 2014 @12:32AM (#7887447)
By "science has confirmed accounts", do you mean anything more than "has confirmed that some historical locations used for these stories actually existed"?

If so, can you give some examples?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_the_Bible#Chall...

(by way of illustration: most of Robert Parker's Spencer novels are set in Boston. You could prove via archeological evidence that the buildings and streets mentioned in these stories exist - they weren't invented out of whole cloth - but this wouldn't prove Spencer himself ever existed much less did any of the things claimed about him in the stories.)

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by venomsnake on Friday June 13, 2014 @03:17AM (#7887731)
The first thing I thought of too. A massive earthquake with juust the right condition could squeeze some water in the ocean. Or tsunami like event for a simpler explanation. Or something just big enough to make a good splash in some sea.

The flood myth is very persistent but we need to have in mind that humanity was tiny back then. So even a 2011 Japanese like tsunami could be the flood.

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by arethuza on Friday June 13, 2014 @08:19AM (#7888401)
There have been large tsunamis caused by underwater landslides - notably the Storegga Slide off Norway that inundated a lot of areas in what are now Scotland and Norway ~8000 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storegga_Slide

The Storegga Slide might also have been, at least partly, responsible for the disappearance of Doggerland under the North Sea:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by deciplex on Thursday June 12, 2014 @09:29PM (#7887016)
And after that: a concerted effort to open up those fountains, flooding the Earth in order to make the prophecy come true.

Sorta like how a lot of them support Israel for the sole purpose of instigating the end times.

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by rbanffy on Thursday June 12, 2014 @09:57PM (#7887098)
It's probably easier to bring three oceans worth of comets to rain on Earth than it would be to dig that deep and extract that water.

Eventually we will opt to dismantle the Earth to build more habitats, but it'll be more like peeling an onion layer by layer. By the time we are peeling 700 km, we'll encounter the water.

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by jcromartie on Friday June 13, 2014 @08:20AM (#7888405)
Who? Fundies assert that the world won't be flooded again (as per God's promise after the original flood). They are waiting for the world to be destroyed the second time by fire, not water.
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by Shivetya on Friday June 13, 2014 @11:12AM (#7889202)
well its neat they could be some basis for it. Granted they would never have known about this but if there were a chance the water could break surface, catastrophic earth quake or some such fun never experienced since that allowed this water to reach the surface, just imagine the outcome. After all you would not have water falling from the sky, it would just be there all around you.
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by ohwp on Friday June 13, 2014 @03:24AM (#7887743)
There already are theories about this. For example: http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ29.html

I'm not sure why you think creationists are dumb people. Even scientists don't agree with all theories in the science books.

So yeah, maybe there was an event where fountains of the deep opened up. Some people believe dinosaurs were killed because after that a change in atmosphere provided less food. Others believe a comet killed them. There is and isn't proof for both theories so maybe there is truth in both.

Our creation / existence is one big riddle everyone tries to solve different.

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by gambiting on Friday June 13, 2014 @06:49AM (#7888115)
Are you one of those people who think that "evolution is just a theory"? Creationists are dumb people. So are people believing in homoeopathy or astrology.
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by ohwp on Friday June 13, 2014 @09:38AM (#7888729)
Yes I think evolution is a theory.

A good scientist knows other theories may come and change the landscape. So you need to keep an open mind.

That's why I posted the link to the theory of the deep fountains. I think it's a good theory explaining some events in the past.

Is it true? I don't know. But we also have no proof for evolution. But the theory of evolution works very well to explain a lot.

The only science that has proof is math.

(I'm not a creationist by the way)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_fact_and_theory

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by scott_s on Friday June 13, 2014 @10:50AM (#7889100)
We have stupendous amounts of evidence for evolution.
Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by ceejayoz on Friday June 13, 2014 @12:25PM (#7889605)
> But we also have no proof for evolution.

This is incorrect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_exp...

Re:Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core by gambiting on Friday June 13, 2014 @09:50AM (#7888808)
I am not saying that you are a creationist,but I am saying that everyone shouting "evolution is just a theory!!" is almost universally wrong.

>>But we also have no proof for evolution.

Then you must have missed a lot of pretty much everything going in science in the last ~300 years. If ancient bones are not "scientific" enough for you, look at bacteria, which evolve(yes,evolve, not magically change due to divine intervention) in a space of days,not millennia.