[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btc1MflBSeQ&feature=youtu.be...

I read maybe one piece on Gurbaksh Chahal, but I never saw any remorse. Brendan Eich not only showed no remorse, he doubled down and dug in with his bigotry.

Thank you for posting that video. I hadn't seen it. I'm generally skeptical of any celebrity's "remorse" when they get caught but it does help frame the current context.

Sticking to your beliefs is definitely not admirable, though. I’m not sure why you are claiming that. Sticking to your beliefs in itself is worthless.

If your beliefs are worthwhile then sticking to them is obviously the right thing to do, if they are not then not. You can’t just say that sticking to your beliefs is worthwhile, no matter what.

1. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/donald-sterling-admits...

Is this a joke, or did you not read the article you linked past the first clause of the headline?

But, yeah, of course distance in time does matter when judging someone. Obviously. Not for everything, sure, but for many things.

Look, we've got stories all over about the #YesAllWomen phenomenon on twitter currently. All the women asking for equality and stating that they have been sexually harassed/abused/assaulted in some way. Now in this story we have someone who holds a lot of past and current personal responsibility for sending a powerful message of inequality and harassment/abuse toward women.

Seems you are giving him a pass. I just wonder why women never seem to organize anything significant to oppose accounts and portrayals of mistreatment from entertainment sources such as rap music. Garbage in, garbage out. If people listen to rap music enough, they start to emulate the language, treatment and other thought patterns being drilled into their brains (it's voluntary brainwash/ thought programming really).

Oh the irony of the entertainment (and also the tech) industry...

"bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks....", I mean cmon.

If young people play shooter video games, they become killers!

You made me login to say answer to this.

No we don't and that's a ridiculous statement. There's rappers who objectify women but that doesn't makes us more sexist than any other guy and you can't just generalize rap like that.

On related news, Battlefield and metal fans are starting to kill people because they can't like something and can't think for themselves.

I think Ben Horowitz will disagree with you, a couple of other VCs as well!

In music we seem less able to separate the story from the artist than for other artistic mediums. Is it because many rappers maintain a public persona which is in line with that presented in the albums (even though it's not in line with the way they really are), or is it because music is still generally considered to be primarily about raw entertainment, rather than storytelling? It's interesting.

A few points that come to mind:

* actors move on to new roles frequently, while a musician's persona often sticks with them for most of their career

* films and novels have an explicit designation of "autobiographical" when the artist is telling their own story

* in music the line isn't always so clear, but I think most people expect that to some extent the songwriter is telling a personal story

* not all musicians even write their own music / lyrics but people still associate the message of the story with the performer

You raised a really interesting aspect of the discussion, thanks for your thought provoking comment!

At the same time, no one is suggesting Matthew Weiner is a mysoginist because of his portrayal of men and women in Mad Men.

However, my favorite songs (i.e., the ones that speak to me) have been played several hundred times (and that's only based on iTunes metadata).

Films dazzle our minds. Music sings to your soul.

I personally once thought that we should ban gay marriage. As I grew up and gained more understanding about homosexuality my view totally changed. I think we definitely have to give people the chance to change. I would guess that most of the people here on HackerNews grew up thinking that homosexuality was a choice and some sort of perversion. However, I would bet that most of us have changed our views as we have either accepted who we are or have had friends that were gay help our understanding grow.

As far as Dr Dre, I had never listened to his music or really followed him in the news. I would probably error on the side of a lot of the other comments, that we should give him a break because it appears that he has changed. My two cents.

CEOs are public figures, and if the public doesn't like what they stand for, they can certain;y ask the organization to make a change. Mozilla stood for openness and freedom, which is counter to the actions of the CEO. It's not intolerant to tell a company that their CEO is engaging in activity counter to the message of the organization, and ask for their removal.

a) Dr. Dre is a performer. Rap, distasteful as you may find it, is performance art. It's the same as gangster movies. Would you object to Apple working with Scorcese? It's a character, albeit slightly autobiographical, but not much different than someone like Bukowski, IMO.

b) The Dr. Dre - Dee Barnes incident took place in 1991, almost 25 years ago. Should an isolated incident, for which he has made amends, haunt the man for the rest of his life? I don't think comparing it to the RadiumOne CEO, a current crime, is reasonable.

c) It would be rather hypocritical for Apple to profit off the musical talent of young black males creating "offensive" music, but not deign to work with them due to some moral qualms.

Our tolerance for entertainers seems to be much higher than for executives. And I doubt many in the tech world think of Dre as a "real" executive. He's there for marketing reasons, but doesn't have much oversight of the day-to-day and the damage he can do is limited. This perception might be wrong.

I guess I used that phrase because that's how everyone framed the Gurbaksh Chahal incident. At least in my Twitter feed.

I'm not saying I like this, I'm saying this is the interpretation that seems to make the most sense.

Bitches != All Women (when it comes to oldeschool rap lyrics at least)

A "bitch" in ebonics/early-hardcore-rap is a scandalous/hated woman for well known reasons. Like the local gold digger or crack whore which was very prevalent in their societies which they strongly felt the need to address. They're not referring to all women as being bitches.

This is explained quite eloquently in N.W.A.'s "A Bitch Iz a Bitch" which was produced by Dr. Dre. and DJ Yella [0][1]

[0] http://rapgenius.com/1472495

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5TsjmaycsQ (explicit, but best source by far)

Do you seriously think someone is going to listen to this garbage for an hour each day and then go into society and be polite and respectful to women? You think it doesn't spill over? I know from personal experience that is does. I had friends who started to change the way they talked about and treated women after becoming heave N.W.A listeners. Years later they told me that they felt that it influenced them negatively and that the influence was pervasive. They regretted listening to that trash.

I don't understand people. You think watching porn regularly doesn't affect how you think sex should be (and what you expect from it)? Sex can never live up to a porno, it's a fantasy. Do you think that porn doesn't contribute to sexual harassment/abuse/assault? It's not hard to find lots of men's blogs, books, movies, ETC whom it has heavily affected. Surveys show that it's negative influence is widespread.

Influential things like gangster rap and porn that go into our brains break and form neuro-pathways. They actually shape how we think long term. They are mind altering in a negative way.

People think of them like alcohol. You can drink it now and it will be out of your system in time for work tomorrow morning. This actually is not the case though. These thoughts and images will NEVER leave our minds.

Why is this all a big deal? well here on HN, equality comes up quite often. Women's right to be treated equal, to be free from sexual harassment, and from being treated as inferiors. Do you think Dre's influence in years past and presently has helped women's equality or hurt it? I think the answer is quite obvious.

If you are female, can you imagine being his co-worker, or admin assistant at Apple? How uncomfortable would that be?

Absolutely. That "someone" you mentioned is me.

>I don't understand people. You think watching porn regularly doesn't affect how you think sex should be (and what you expect from it)? ....... etc .... etc ....

What are you talking about?

>Why is this all a big deal? well here on HN, equality comes up quite often. Women's right to be treated equal, to be free from sexual harassment, and from being treated as inferiors. Do you think Dre's influence in years past and presently has helped women's equality or hurt it? I think the answer is quite obvious.

I really couldn't care any less, I was only commenting on the fact that "Bitches" in an N.W.A. song is not referring to all women in general.

>If you are female, can you imagine being his co-worker, or admin assistant at Apple? How uncomfortable would that be?

I can literally think of 10+ females that I know who would jump at the chance to work alongside Dr. Dre for FREE.

Even after calling them Bitches on stage, he experienced no shortage of women trying to sleep with him after every show he performed.

Try listening to some N.W.A. sometime, you never know, you just might like it!

There's no inherent need for balance (like you seem to want: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7623043 ) in people exercising their free speech. If it bothers you, do something about it.

I do feel strongly about bad behavior (and I try to do some small parts)–but not about the lack of balance. I just find it intriguing and possibly worthy of discussion. I'm inclined to call it "hypocrisy" but maybe that's not the correct term.

I'm naive enough to think I can change what people choose to fight. Like open source, sometimes you find a bug but don't know how to fix it. What can you do besides submit an issue in GitHub?

Mark Wahlberg, beat up a korean store owner - never mentioned

Sean Penn, beat up his wife, Madonna - never mentioned.

Julian Assange - rapist (allegedly)

Harry Reid - made remarks about Obama only being successful due to being "light skinned"

Bjork - beat up a female reporter

The justice system takes care of unacceptable social behavior. Everything else is a difference of opinion.

Even for a special "hacker community".

If you're young you probably don't know what I mean.

No over analysis of this reply please, my eyes might not come down again if I keep doing it. :)

I'm sorry I made you sad