News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by hluska on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @11:22AM (#7225167)
While I don't think the proposed edit would help, the commenter isn't actually wrong - in modern usage, it is more correct to say "fewer corrections" than "less corrections." Language doesn't form in a vacuum, nor is its growth confined to dictionaries. Rather, language is a living, breathing thing and grammar is closer to history than mechanics.

Consider the less v. fewer debate. Yes, several hundred years ago, it was just fine to say "less corrections." However, for whatever reason, the upper crust decided that "fewer corrections" both looked and sounded better. Consequently, "less corrections" evolved to be less correct. My inner smartass wanted to say "fewer correct", but that would be a silly joke.

It's like Russian. If you speak French, you can understand many Russian words. This isn't because French and Russian are linguistic cousins. Rather, it's because French was the language of nobility and words trickled down.

Or heck, we could talk about the word "you." You was originally formal, whereas "thou" was more relaxed and informal. Yet, today, if I started a comment on Hacker News with, "I fear thou are wrong", it would seem needlessly formal.

To conclude this long mess (it was supposed to be four lines and turned into paragraphs), language evolves constantly. Though certain distinctions didn't exist in earlier English, they exist now. However, if you know much about the history and formation of English, you should be less pedantic. It should also make us much more tolerant of people for whom English isn't their native language. We speak an intensely complex language with random rules that apply in some cases and not others.

Thank heavens we don't have to compile our language before we speak it...:)

Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by sqrt17 on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @11:53AM (#7225393)
"more correct" is nonsense, since 'correct' is not a gradable adjective. "more acceptable" would be correct.

Whether "less [count-noun]" is acceptable depends on granularity: "less than two adverbs" is acceptable whenever it feels alright to you to just abstract adverbs into a pure number. "less than two corrections" is not acceptable to most people because corrections don't lend themselves to being abstracted into a number.

Languages are not random. It's just that prescriptivist get hung up on random subsets of language and pretend they've seen all of it.

Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by bane on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @03:33PM (#7227058)
'correct' is definitely gradable and is commonly used as such. There is a nice long history of such usage going back at least a quarter of a millennium.

"Which is more correct? This or that?"

There's even "most correct" as in "it is most correct to choose..."

This is due to the simple fact that in many non-trivial fields, correctness is not absolute and thus multiple correct choices or outcomes are valid. Local preferences might recognize this, but prefer one over the other. In noun usage, this is a carryover from verb usage

"My shoes were mostly corrected by the cobbler." is perfectly fine, so users of English also find that "The fit of my shoes is mostly correct." is also perfectly valid usage.

More examples:

Which partial phrase emphasizes, and persuades better a point better (as a matter of rhetoric)?

"It is most correct to take this option."

"It is a preference to take this option."

Of course the former is stronger than the latter.

"correct" clearly grades.

Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by hluska on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @12:18PM (#7225596)
Sorry, but I don't understand what you're trying to say.

If you're specifically talking about my use of "more correct", let me try another example of why I think "more correct" is useful nonsense. I'm Canadian. Therefore, I use spellings like "colour" and "honour".

However, if I'm writing something primarily targeted to Americans, I switch to honor and color. It isn't that colour becomes incorrect when I write for an American audience. To me, color is always wrong. But, if I want to influence an American audience, color will be the correct spelling they're looking for.

When I'm obsessing over edits, especially when underlying rules are unclear (or non-existent), shades of correctness are the best metric I can find. Do you have another?

Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by hyperbovine on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @12:59PM (#7225997)
Coming from a Canadian, perhaps the most correct response would be to chide us on our pursuit of a more perfect union :-)
Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by tptacek on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @12:45PM (#7225871)
Something is either correct or it isn't, is the point.

You might instead write "closer to correct", but, how clunky.

Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by andrewflnr on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @03:06PM (#7226916)
I could say the same about acceptability. You either accept something or don't. Grudging acceptance is still acceptance, right?

Meanwhile, you can assign a mathematical measure of partial correctness for, say, sets of statements, simply as the fraction of correct statements over the total. In linguistics, you can assign measures to both acceptibility and correctness simultaneously by taking the fraction of people who "accept" a construct as "correct".

I'm not even sure how many levels of meta I'm at, so I'm done.

Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by e12e on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @09:44PM (#7229003)
> Something is either correct or it isn't, is the point.

    Correct \Cor*rect"\ (k[^o]r*r[e^]kt"), a.
    [L. correctus, p. p. of corrigere to make straight,
    to correct; cor- + regere to lead straight: cf. F.
    correct. See {Regular}, {Right}, and cf. {Escort}.]

    Set right, or made straight; hence, conformable to
    truth, rectitude, or propriety, or to a just standard;
    not faulty or imperfect; free from error; as, correct
    behavior; correct views.
     [1913 Webster]
  
           Always use the most correct editions.    
           --Felton.
Granted, 1913 webster is almost an archaic resource at this point, but it's interesting that its very first example of use is "most correct".
Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by betenoire on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @01:58PM (#7226451)
> Something is either correct or it isn't

If you are building truth tables, then something is either correct or it isn't. But that's certainly not the case when using words to communicate ideas between humans.

After all, haven't each of us taken a multiple choice test with instructions to choose the most correct answer?

Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by BHSPitMonkey on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @02:43PM (#7226773)
When it comes to diction, there are always a variety of choices. You make those decisions based on whichever word or phrase works best given the circumstances.

It's no different than choosing the most appropriate programming language for a given project; plenty will work, but ultimately one is the most logical given who will be writing it, reading it, using it, maintaining it, deploying it, etc.

Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by oconnor0 on Thursday February 13, 2014 @10:10AM (#7231722)
Einstein's theories about the universe are more correct than Newton's. Neither are "correct".
Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by steveeq1 on Friday February 14, 2014 @08:56AM (#7238471)
Reminds me of an old quote by George E. P. Box - "All models are wrong, but some are useful"
Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by bennyg on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @06:52PM (#7228351)
Guys -- use whatever the fuck you'd like.
Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by coldtea on Thursday February 13, 2014 @06:47AM (#7230804)
Except in any domain where correctness is not black and white.
Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by sopooneo on Thursday February 13, 2014 @09:23PM (#7236435)
Maybe "more perfect"?
Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by x0054 on Thursday February 13, 2014 @01:25AM (#7229835)
Funny enough, try making that argument to a Russian. The argument that language is more history than science, and is fluid and ever-changing. Many words in Russian are commonly, and in most cases properly, pronounced one way, and yet spelled another. It's infuriating. Of course, what do I know, I have the privilege of having no native language. Borne in Ukraine, first spoke Russian, with Ukrainian accent, then learned Ukrainian, with a Russian accent, and now my primary language is English, with eastern european accent :)
Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by mushly on Thursday February 13, 2014 @02:24AM (#7229999)
Oh my god that sounds like me. Grew up speaking some Cantonese with parents in America, learned to speak English fluently with a Chinese accent, went to China and learned to speak a bit of Mandarin with a Cantonese/English accent, back in the U.S. and somehow along the way I've acquired an accent in Cantonese as well!
Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by ajanuary on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @11:50AM (#7225364)
The 'language is evolving' and 'language is defined by usage' arguments go both ways.

When something was both not historically incorrect, and not considered incorrect by many current people, the arguments people make about it being wrong starts to crumble slightly.

Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by hluska on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @12:36PM (#7225776)
It's kind of like A/B testing. A blue button isn't wrong, but a green button coverts better.

Language is the same. If your goal is to communicate, the most easily understood choice is best. Some grammatical quirks do nothing to hinder comprehension and don't need to be pointed out (ie - less/fewer). Others are far more toxic.

Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by MaysonL on Thursday February 13, 2014 @02:47PM (#7233764)
However, grammatical quirks which don't hinder comprehension still act as signals of status. Using "less" where "fewer" is more correct, or vice versa, will definitely hinder acceptnce of the message by many, regardless of its comprehensibility.
Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by brokenparser on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @02:40PM (#7226751)
Thanks! copy... paste...

And the results are in: http://i.imgur.com/6KMvhIa.png

(It appears that this comment itself is only good enough when I include this sentence.)

Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by nutate on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @12:30PM (#7225724)
Generally the less syllables the better...
Re:Hemingway makes your writing bold and clear by hluska on Wednesday February 12, 2014 @12:38PM (#7225798)
Brevity is a sickness. I have natural immunity...;)