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Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by dredmorbius on Saturday January 18, 2014 @01:22AM (#7080326)
I turned to this page after the following experience (I make aggressive use of ad blockers and JS filtering generally).

This was in an incognito Chromium session where I don't run NoScript.

I was searching for some basic heat transfer references and found a page with a nice write-up on Newton's law of heat transfer. I copied the URL into the post I was composing as I was reading it. A "chat" dialog pops up asking if I need tutoring assistance. Um. No. So I ignore it.

The site then navigates me away from the page and onto a registration page.

Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot.

My immediate and predictable response: I fired up 'sudo -e /etc/hosts' and added both hostnames to my blocklist. Though I took the courtesy of emailing the site's contact address and asking them what the actual fuck they thought they were doing.

Apparently Pearson Education have the educational market so fully sewn up they can get away with this kind of bullshit.

But seriously? What the actual fuck?

Upshot: why do people block the hell out of this stuff? It's goddamned annoying as hell.

I compiled a list some time ago on G+ that's worth repeating here:

Forbes asks: Why do programmers hate advertising so much?

First, I think it's hardly just programmers. I suspect most people find advertising to be a negative.

But as to us techies? Why do we hate thee? Let me count the ways:

1. It's intrusive. Many/most of us probably have some level of ADD/OCD. Or just plain environmental sensitivity.

2. It's distracting.

3. It promotes a host of anti-usability features: content muting, multi-page click-through articles, overly formatted pages, overlays, pop-ups, persistent floating top/right/left/bottom elements, audio, video, multiple audio/video.

4. It's creepy, and you're creeping me out. Tracking through various deceptive means, even though I've made very clear that I don't wish to be tracked. Incidentally, subscription content suffers a similar issue: I don't want an audit trail of all things I've read, even on one site, let alone across sites.

5. The ads themselves frequently position themselves to price-discriminate -- though how and when I can never be certain (which undermines the efficacy of all ads).

6. The mechanisms of advertising networks pose security issues: cross-site JS, iframes, Flash, and Java. Even just the proliferation of different JS sources creates a serious management and cognitive overload for the security- and privacy-conscious reader. A single article from a news site may contain over 20 JS sources.

7. The goods and services which are most highly advertised are those which I'm least inclined to buy. Especially for (so-called) food and entertainment, but also general consumer products, electronics, and various services, especially financial services. To the point that when I see advertising my first conscious reaction is "why do they have to try so hard to convince me that that is something worth buying?"

8. It's not relevant. There are a very limited number of times when I'm in a purchase mode. The real value of the Internet would be to (correctly) identify those times, and then find me the best deals on what I want, in the way that I want to obtain it. Which, frankly, dear, isn't online most of the damned time.

On that last point, I've been shopping in recent times for a number of moderately high-ticket items. Including spending a lot of time researching options on-line. My biggest take-away is that online purchase researching sucks massively. Contrast to the experience at a store with a well-trained, skilled retail staff. "Is this what you like?" "No, I'm looking for something that's more XXX". And as much as I disdain retail much of the time, the people who are good at it figure out what you want, what you can afford, and what they have that suits you, quickly, without wasting your time (and if you're lucky, making the exercise enjoyable).

It's something I've also addressed recently, "Search quality vs. search personalization". The upshot: there's a lot more information in the moment that's relevant to purchase logic than in a person's profile or market demographics. Advertisers/shoppers could avoid massive amounts of creep factor by focusing on this, probably with vastly superior conversion factors.

The final thought: advertising is well and good, but where the rubber hits the road is in making the sale. Which is where Amazon (and other sales-oriented sites: eBay, Craigslist, Apple's iTunes) wins all over any advertising-based site.

Update: oh, and the email I sent to Pearson? It bounced. I'm shocked, shocked ....

Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by cliveowen on Saturday January 18, 2014 @05:01AM (#7080656)
"Many/most of us probably have some level of ADD/OCD."

That's a rather debatable point, I don't know anyone with any of these, frankly I think it's a U.S. thing. If it weren't for american movies I wouldn't even know it was a thing.

Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by jotm on Saturday January 18, 2014 @08:05AM (#7080900)
It's because in the US, ADD/OCD-like behaviors are seen as a problem, while in Europe they're considered "natural" up to a pretty high point.

I don't even know which is worse - making kids with slight ADHD take stimulants (US) or ignoring the symptoms unless they're truly a problem (bad grades and behavior aren't - you're just mentally stupid or a culturally uneducated prick in Europe).

People with slight ADD/OCD can get by, but they'll always feel something is wrong and that no one understands them (plus some may never reach their full potential), while those on meds will suffer later on...

Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by tunap on Saturday January 18, 2014 @10:56AM (#7081226)
"in Europe they're considered "natural"

That is because when a majority of people exhibit certain traits, those traits do not constitute aberrance. Marketing, Pharma influence & FUD peddling can make a majority feel singled out. Fear & consumption 101.

Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by acjohnson55 on Saturday January 18, 2014 @12:08PM (#7081412)
Assuming ADD is real (and I strongly believe it is), that doesn't imply that the only alternative to medication is denial. In the US, besides Big Phrama, I think another big reason we reach for the pillbox is because it's a simpler and cheaper "solution" than trying to teach hyperactive children to better manage themselves and having other contingencies in place for when a child is not coping well.
Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by tunap on Saturday January 18, 2014 @01:04PM (#7081615)
I believe ADD is an umbrella diagnosis for a number of related/unrelated symptoms we do not fully comprehend, or want to comprehend. I'm sure nobody's brain reacts the same as any other, so 'imbalance' can easily be misconstrued to include everyone, not just extreme cases. It is an easily marketable diagnosis requiring little effort(patient's prerogative) and profitable returns(healthcare provider's prerogative).

I strongly agree with 2nd point, personal accountability and good stewardship/parenting are lost values in the western world. Our youth are bored and brainwashed by the media...I was too. We're constantly reminded we are 'special'(individually, just like everyone else), we can buy happiness/solutions to our problems if we have the latest/greatest (*) and 'Not my kid' is almost a national anthem. Perception is everything & it too is easily manipulated by selfish and external influences. I too am impressionable and find much of marketing insulting, sometimes assaulting. That's why I do not watch commercial television and browse the Tubez w/ AdBlock & NoScript...I am startled sometimes when I browse without them, it's a completely different experience.

edit: reworded last two sentences

Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by serge2k on Saturday January 18, 2014 @07:45AM (#7080872)
That's because people like to equate wanting their desk to be neat with OCD.

I do think that TV and internet have done nothing to help my attention span, but it might just be that I dismiss things I have no interest in. When I am doing something interesting I can focus easily for a long time.

Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by dredmorbius on Saturday January 18, 2014 @06:46AM (#7080796)
I've got my doubts on a whole lot of psychiatric disorder diagnostics. That said: I really hate any sort of intrusive distractions. Nothing but nothing but nothing will convince me to kill a browser tab faster than that kind of crap.
Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by marincounty on Saturday January 18, 2014 @11:42AM (#7081345)
I too question "a lot of psychiatric disorder diagnostics". I even question if Psychiatry even deserves it's own speciality. Maybe they deserve a speciality in medicine, but their training needs a revival--a serious restructuring of all teaching requirements in order to obtain a license to call themselves specialists? Actually, I would like to see all medications that don't work, or work slightly better than placebo( in a bunch of "cherry picked" studies, by drug companies); made illegal to sell. I still can't believe their are Psychiatrist out their who claim to know how a particular drug works in the brain. I literally want to throw up when I hear a Doctor who claims to be an expert in their esoteric field of medicine. Especially, when every other month a study comes out questioning the validity of a medication, or the efficacy of Therapy. Yes--I will take my expensive, addictive medications--like I do every day. Sorry, for my rant. Oh yea, why am I still paying for doctors, and meds? Because, insurance companies just flat out refuse to cover certain medications, and limit doctor visits. I don't blame Obama--the Republicans fought his original bill at every step. I am grateful that people won't lose their home in collections if they get serious ill.
Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by skue on Saturday January 18, 2014 @12:01PM (#7081391)
This subthread has nothing to do with the original article...

Let's please avoid hijacking this discussion and avoid arguing about the prevalence of things like ADD (as richly ironic as these discussions may be :-)

Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by dredmorbius on Sunday January 19, 2014 @12:38AM (#7083502)
If you think advertising and psychology have nothing to do with one another, you're suffering from delusional disorder (DSM IV 297.1).
Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by marincounty on Saturday January 18, 2014 @11:08AM (#7081260)
I understand companies need to make some money, but I never met a website that was to special; I would sit through their slick Ads. I don't mind a few links, but lately I won't even bother to swipe to see an answer(usually wrong too).

As, to "Do you want it for free Dude"--Yea, at this point I do. When websites evolve into "must have", or can teach a complex subject fast people will sit through a lot of bull chit ads. I feel the teaching of programming languages in a fast, concise, manner is really in demand. I'm getting off subject, but lately I trying to learn the basics of programming. The core concepts to all languages, then python and ruby. Zeb Shaw's website is the only teaching site I can I can stomach. Those dudes at Harvard and MIT, who throw candy, mean well, but are painfully slow. Yea, I'm really off subject, but there's got to be a natural teacher out there who can spit this information out fast, or at least offer a free way of speeding up their presentations? I'll shut up. Bye-

Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by mopedDreams on Saturday January 18, 2014 @12:08PM (#7081414)
A good (but unfortunately not free) Python resource is usingpython.com. It's meant for GCSE students, but it is concise and teaches the basics.
Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by wcummings on Saturday January 18, 2014 @10:22AM (#7081163)
>4. It's creepy, and you're creeping me out. Tracking through various deceptive means, even though I've made very clear that I don't wish to be tracked. Incidentally, subscription content suffers a similar issue: I don't want an audit trail of all things I've read, even on one site, let alone across sites.

So you're entitled to that content for free? If you really hate ads that much, and you use a site with any frequency, it only seems right to buck up and pay or not visit the site.

Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by gort on Saturday January 18, 2014 @10:42AM (#7081195)
> So you're entitled to that content for free?

The web browser sends a request to the server requesting something, and the server can either say "200 OK" and send you the document, or it can do something else, such as refuse.

If it does send you the document, this does not create any other obligations on your part; for example it doesn't create an obligation to issue further requests so as to download images referred to in <img> tags in the document. Even if you do so download them, there's no obligation to actually render them on any particular device.

If the server owner objects to this he needs to configure his server to do something other than reply "200 OK" to arbitrary requests.

Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by ollysb on Saturday January 18, 2014 @10:34AM (#7081185)
Forced to choose between adverts or paying for content (imagine a payment scheme like spotify, fixed rate subscription, popular sites get paid more etc.) I would pay in a flash. The problem is, as has been discussed many times before, the advertisers don't want people to opt out of advertising because those that can afford to are far more valuable than the others.
Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by freshhawk on Saturday January 18, 2014 @05:45PM (#7082566)
They're publishing it for free. Do you really believe this? When ad networks defend their industry with a "not buying our product is a moral failing" argument I see it as silly but understandable rhetoric.

Browsers are under the users control, always have been. That's the strength of the medium. Yes, that means it's both harder to force people to read ads than with pre-dvr television and harder to hide the fact they aren't reading ads than with newspapers.

Should I also be reading all of an article that I found boring because not clicking on page 2 is cheating the site out of page views?

I get that the business model of advertiser supported content is threatened by ad blocking, but since when is it the consumers/users fault when a business model fails due to being poorly adapted to a new medium?

Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by grkvlt on Saturday January 18, 2014 @01:04PM (#7081614)
> 4. It's creepy, and you're creeping me out. [...] Incidentally, subscription content suffers a similar issue: [...]

This is mentioned a lot. I don't really see what's 'creepy' about ad placement algorithms? It's a mechanical process that results in a (hopefully) more relevant display of advertising to you. The word 'creepy' suggests unpleasantness or something frightening and I just don't get it.

Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by dispense on Saturday January 18, 2014 @03:11PM (#7082067)
From my perspective, hundreds of unknown parties from unknown jurisdictions (likely not my own) potential collect, store (for unknown lengths of time and with unknown security measures) and analyze unknown amounts of my internet activity for purposes that include, possibly among other purposes, advertising, through means that are largely unknown to me (cookies? Flash supercookies? my browser fingerprint (which is quite distinct)?).

This is much more intrusive and not comparable to a company ad in my local newspaper or a magazine to which I'm subscribed.

Re:Ad blockers: A solution or a problem? by dredmorbius on Saturday January 18, 2014 @06:23PM (#7082697)
Bingo.

Ad to this that their own security practices suck in multiple dimensions. Maleare. Subpoenas. Target's database disclosures.

And the fact that the information is being used against my interests, as noted.