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Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by davemel37 on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @12:45PM (#6960293)
This site should be penalized up the wazoo. This "non-apology" apology, is the classic example of a tattletale at school...the classic excuse of its not my fault cuz everyone is doing it...more importantly, it is wrong, and demonstrates a "our sh don't stick mentality" exchanging a tweet for a link is considered exchanging services for a link, which does indeed fall under the buying links category.) Furthermore, while links in twitter might not pass link juice they most certainly influence search rankings, whether its personalized search, or actual algorithms that take into consideration social signals.

The argument that you only tweet out high quality content is nil when you consider you were "Paid" with a link to tweet it out. How do you remove the inherent bias? Wouldn't you tweet out a high pr site you want more links from, even if it wasn't relevant?

You are in a high interest sector with SO MANY LEGIT STRATEGIES TO ATTRACT HIGH VALUE LINKS NATURALLY... Why are you wasting time with spammy strategies that haven't worked in several years?

Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by Goopplesoft on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @12:50PM (#6960309)
Very childish indeed, it was not an apology at all but a 'they're doing it too' kind of post. I've seen this type of childish behavior on a couple occasions with them (e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NAzQPll7Lo )... I'm quite surprised they decided take this approach.

Edit: mirror, since I'm betting the text will be modified soon considering the reactions here. http://pastebin.com/dMh7dgxp

Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by look_lookatme on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @12:55PM (#6960339)
Childishness seems ingrained in this company's DNA.
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by PaulHoule on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @03:01PM (#6960904)
I voted for this in the new q becuz I wanted them to get burned
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by strathmeyer on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @02:25PM (#6960725)
Who, HackerNews'?? It's always so funny when people insult someone and assume the rest of us will know what they are talking about instead of assuming your comments apply to yourself.
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by saym on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @02:52PM (#6960856)
It didn't take a whole lot of critical thinking to figure out what company he was talking about.
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by 001sky on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @02:55PM (#6960868)
There's a fine line between being a performance artist and a douchebag.

Other than that, i have no concerns.

Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by jimsilverman on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @01:25PM (#6960477)
a textbook examples of the dreaded "bro-grammer"
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by ripberge on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @01:24PM (#6960472)
You are very misinformed if you think these strategies do not work. They are a necessity for a startup in very high competition niches.

Take a look at the source of the very reputable: www.usatoday.com/sports/ and search for "NFL Tickets". Blatant link buying by vivid seats. SeatGeek does this all over the place as well. When you have really strong competitors buying links like this and getting away with it--it's the only way to compete.

In my experience Google has never penalized a competitor for doing this in my niche, therefore to compete I have to do it as well.

What Rapgenius is doing is very innocent compared to a lot of what is going on out there.

Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by antr on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @01:58PM (#6960621)
Although I don't agree that "What Rapgenius is doing is very innocent", I do have to agree on the general (black) SEO tactics that startups do, and even blue chips do.

This is my first hand experience: I was contacted by an "SEO Consultant" who wanted to publish an article in one my sites for $40. I went along, exchanged a few emails, and managed to get the "article" this company wanted to publish.

Bottom line was that they wanted to place link's to Tesco's LED bulbs site:

    Text: decorative and useful living room accessory
    URL: http://www.tesco.com/direct/home-garden/lighting/cat3376614.cat
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by davemel37 on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @02:14PM (#6960689)
I didn't say buying links doesn't work. I said asking for a series of exact match anchor text links, on the bottom of a blog post on a site that is likely irrelevant, is very unlikely to work.

More importantly, any strategy that is against Googles quality guidelines that works today, probably wont work forever, or even for another several months. The pain and suffering of getting slapped by google is much too intense to justify the short term gains.

Matt Cutts himself said recently that the best way to discourage spammers is not just to hurt their bottom line, but to "Break Their Spirits." http://searchengineland.com/googles-matt-cutts-on-search-spa...

Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by ripberge on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @02:27PM (#6960741)
You're giving Google's algorithms way too much credit. The exact strategy you described still does work--and that's really the sad part.

That's why Google has to have these scare tactics to stop people from doing them. If they didn't work then Google and you and everyone else who's up in arms over this would just ignore these links.

I can guarantee you that if you do a backlink analysis of everyone ranking ahead of rapgenius for these search terms they will have thousands of these types of backlinks.

Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by davemel37 on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @02:45PM (#6960819)
My experience differs. Odds are, even with all those spammy links, there are thousands of legit links. Many of those links are probably discounted by Google.

I definitely agree that Google wouldn't be so vocal about buying links, if it wasn't a real threat to the quality of their SERPs.

That being said, this particular strategy from Rap Genius most certainly does not work. There are just too many obvious signals that those links are unnatural.

Why not go for the single link, in content, without exact match anchor text, with content near the link with the text you want to rank for...

http://wiep.net/link-value-factors/

If you're gonna ask bloggers for links, start with legit outreach strategies, why open with an obvious barter. I bet broken linkbuilding http://www.brokenlinkbuilding.com/ is a treasure trove of opportunity in the lyrics vertical. or simple Start with just sharing great content that is relevant, and nurture relationships with bloggers. Why buy them off, when you have such a great web property?

For a list of more strategies... http://pointblankseo.com/link-building-strategies

why not try this strategy while your at it... It would work perfectly for Rap Genius. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5688175

Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by girvo on Wednesday December 25, 2013 @01:55AM (#6962436)
While you're right, doesn't it scare anyone else that your entire business can be at the whim of Googles algorithms and decisions? :(
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by DanBC on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @02:23PM (#6960718)
> In my experience Google has never penalized a competitor for doing this in my niche,

Just checking but have you reported the competitors?

Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by pkfrank on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @01:59PM (#6960630)
Is there a legitimate way to "tattle" on competitors that are blatantly abusing SEO practices?
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by davemel37 on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @02:10PM (#6960677)
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by ripberge on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @02:06PM (#6960657)
You can report them using Google Webmaster tools. I have done this for several sites, but the link buying & ranking within Google continues. The system is broken.
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by lflux on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @02:22PM (#6960710)
Well, not including the link you wanted to boost in the first place is a good start.
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by douglee650 on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @03:43PM (#6961058)
it's not about right or wrong, good or bad.

it's about traffic. thus spake zara.

Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by pvnick on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @02:27PM (#6960739)
You would have them be "penalized up the wazoo" because they didn't apologize in the way you would have preferred? Talk about being unreasonably punitive. I would hope that making an example out of somebody is not a formal strategy in search engine ranking. Instead, be rational and penalize them in proportion to the degree to which they cheat, just like everyone else.
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by davemel37 on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @03:14PM (#6960971)
No, I would penalize them for building spammy backlinks the same way Google penalized their own chrome site.

The apology seems to indicate that they only think they did something grayhatish. In reality it was the worst kind of link spam...buying links.

Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by obstacle1 on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @03:14PM (#6960972)
I didn't see any inference from OP that because of this apology the site should be penalized. Perhaps OP thinks that the extremely shady spam tactics the site clearly uses in themselves deserve penalization up the wazoo.
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by sheetjs on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @01:13PM (#6960429)
> You are in a high interest sector with SO MANY LEGIT STRATEGIES TO ATTRACT HIGH VALUE LINKS NATURALLY... Why are you wasting time with spammy strategies that haven't worked in several years?

When you know your competition is playing dirty, you can join them or choose to rise above. There are legitimate arguments for both. They chose to play dirty, and I wouldn't be surprised if this weakened their position in the long term

Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by davemel37 on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @01:16PM (#6960445)
There's always a choice, but in this case... They chose WRONG. Their strategy most likely wouldnt even work if they didnt get caught. lots of exact match anchor text links around content that is completely irrelevant at the bottom of a blog post, without social sharing matching their backlink profile. (yes, search engines can look at your social sharing pattern with your backlinks and see if something is getting artificial backlinks.)

They chose the short long way... They should have chosen the long short way.

Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by seiji on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @01:33PM (#6960518)
This site should be penalized up the wazoo.

Can we get them banned on HN? NSA-level penalized? Insta-dead?

Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by minimaxir on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @01:37PM (#6960541)
Since Rap Genius is a YC company, that is unlikely.

This also isn't the first time a YC company has had ethical issues called out on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5092711

Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by seiji on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @01:46PM (#6960573)
Does anybody else see the folly in letting a corporation with their own agenda run a real time news site?
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by jbigelow76 on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @02:37PM (#6960795)
Does anyone else see the folly in patronizing a news site if you think the news reported is untrustworthy?
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by jamesaguilar on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @02:58PM (#6960883)
What do you mean, "Letting a corporation run...?" You don't "let" someone run a site they created.
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by minimaxir on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @01:59PM (#6960628)
In fairness, the articles submitted from the domain rapgenius.com are appropriate for HN. (e.g. the Heroku incident: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5215884 )

They aren't using HN to submit content spam. (fwiw, there was another YC startup in a similar niche doing just that earlier this year. That startup appears to be dead/zombie now.)

Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by buttsex on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @02:13PM (#6960686)
Eh, as long as HN doesn't censor bad press on its startups (I don't know, maybe they do?) I'm fine with it.
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by Kluny on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @03:36PM (#6961044)
"Letting"? You didn't have to come here.
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by bb0wn on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @01:50PM (#6960585)
I'm pretty sure that that is a sarcastic comment...
Re:Open Letter to Google About Rap Genius SEO by newnewnew on Tuesday December 24, 2013 @05:25PM (#6961347)
In other words, schadenfreude > public good