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Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by Joyfield on Sunday December 22, 2013 @12:23AM (#6949469)
You just want to blame someone other than yourself for not knowing stuff, right?
Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by nnq on Sunday December 22, 2013 @04:29AM (#6949852)
Ubuntu is a customer/"average joe" oriented OS, Canonical spends money to actively promote it as such (!), therefore it should be fit for this purpose.

I know this kind of stuff, but the average user isn't required to know this. Even if the product is free, having a default setting that shortens hardware lifespan instead of an automatic configuration for best lifespan/performance is to me simply cheating the customer. You may wave in may face the "no guarantee to be fit for a particular purpose" or whatever is written in the license, but when you are a commercial company that actively promotes a product, you are responsible to make it "just work", "by default" and to "not require me to think."

...and generally thinking, I think that we as software developers should take the "don't make me think" philosophy more seriously and ditch the "RTFM" mindset, even if we write libraries or tools that are to be used by other programmers. "RTFM" simply can't work at scale: when you use tens or hundreds of devices, apps and technologies, you just don't have the physical time to "read the manual" for all of them, so you should just be able to assume "sane / mostly optimal" defaults. And no, not even a large company can't just hire one professional that is expert in each particular technology they use, open-source or not: nobody can afford this, most shit should just work by default, and when we'll have technology that will be able to "read our minds" or "know stuff for us" we should actively demand that is does so.

Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by phaer on Sunday December 22, 2013 @05:05AM (#6949904)
> [...] is to me simply cheating the customer.

You become a customer, when you start paying them. Until then you are just a user. The license which most of the packages included in Ubuntu use says: "BECAUSE THE PROGRAM IS LICENSED FREE OF CHARGE, THERE IS NO WARRANTY FOR THE PROGRAM, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW. EXCEPT WHEN OTHERWISE STATED IN WRITING THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND/OR OTHER PARTIES", so what did you expect?

Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by wfunction on Sunday December 22, 2013 @06:13AM (#6950004)
> You become a customer, when you start paying them. Until then you are just a user.

^ The problem with free software: you're not supposed to expect it to work correctly.

Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by vidarh on Sunday December 22, 2013 @06:51AM (#6950063)
^ The problem with randomly downloading stuff from the internet without reading the instructions: you likely won't know how to operate it correctly.
Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by wfunction on Sunday December 22, 2013 @03:21PM (#6951583)
You just have to say something even if it doesn't make sense don't you?

TRIM isn't mentioned in what you call "the instructions" [1].

[1] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation

Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by emiljbs on Sunday December 22, 2013 @07:06AM (#6950096)
Who cares?

The design still sucks, that's what matters.

Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by velis_vel on Monday December 23, 2013 @12:19PM (#6955314)
Oh, well this sandwich you made me might have glass shards in it, but you gave it to me for free, so why should I complain?
Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by vidarh on Sunday December 22, 2013 @06:52AM (#6950067)
The "average joe" is not buying SSDs.
Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by nnq on Sunday December 22, 2013 @10:49AM (#6950574)
AJ: My computer is slow, what should I do? Computer Guy: Buy an SSD, I'll also mount it for you! ...err, you have Linux?! Let's see if if works... Yes it does, you're clear to go! (usually the "computer guy" anywhere but actually competent, and whatever he knows is all about Windows...)

...software, especially vital things like OSs should be "designed for reality" and unfortunately this also means to be "designed for stupidity, ignorance and thoughtlessness".

Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by momerath on Sunday December 22, 2013 @01:20AM (#6949547)
Not everyone has time to know exactly what's supported by every combination of hardware and software they use or might use in the future. Personally, I came under the impression that the major filesystems in linux (or ext4 at the very least) "supported" trim years before I actually got an SSD. When I did, it didn't occur to me that I'd need to provide an option to mount for it to actually use said support.

News to me, and I've been using linux since I downloaded SLS floppies from a BBS. As it happens, I'm running Samsung's "flash friendly filesystem" (f2fs) on this machine; I hope I don't need to make sure _it_ is issuing trim instructions.

Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by wfunction on Sunday December 22, 2013 @01:35AM (#6949574)
> You just want to blame someone other than yourself for not knowing stuff, right?

I was going to reply with "I'm a customer, so why should I be expected to know this?"

...but then I realized you wouldn't understand the concept, since Linux is "free", I paid $0.00 as a "customer", and therefore I should shut up because I have no right to be complaining.

Right?

Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by res0nat0r on Sunday December 22, 2013 @03:19AM (#6949747)
Ahh the old "I'm a pissed off customer because you should have read my mind" routine.
Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by wfunction on Sunday December 22, 2013 @03:41AM (#6949782)
Realizing customers want TRIM to be enabled doesn't exactly require you to be psychic, but I'll play along with the hyperbole and point you to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_customer_is_always_right

Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by bad_user on Sunday December 22, 2013 @07:03AM (#6950091)
Except that:

(1) you're not the customer until you pay money and since I assume you haven't paid them for support, which is available btw, you can't be the customer.

(2) trim on Linux was known to cause problems with certain SSDs, not to mention for encrypted volumes (with dm-crypt, which is now offered as a painless option in Ubuntu's GUI installer) it's a security risk. For this reason, I really hope Canonical does know what they are doing, because such features are always problematic if you don't really know the hardware it will run on top of.

(3) no, the customer is not always right and as proof of that fact, pick any 2 customers and marvel at their different opinions on the same topic. Obviously, trying to please everybody cannot work, ergo there is no such thing as "the customer" if by that you refer to yourself and your own opinions and that phrase is just bullshit used in marketing campaigns, as there is no company on this earth that actually believes it.

Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by SamReidHughes on Sunday December 22, 2013 @05:01PM (#6951967)
Using encrypted volumes on SSD's is already a security risk without TRIM, because of the sort of information SSD firmware might store about about how blocks were written. One important piece of information would be about blocks' ages, because it's in the interest of SSD firmware to identify data which is not being frequently modified.
Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by wfunction on Sunday December 22, 2013 @02:28PM (#6951346)
1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6949574

2) Well that horrifies me even more

3) "there is no company on this earth that actually believes it" well I'm glad you've checked every company

Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by eikenberry on Sunday December 22, 2013 @02:14AM (#6949641)
If you don't care to know then you trust the provider to make the decisions for you. The fact that you found out you don't agree with a decision they made shouldn't really surprise you. It is unlikely that you agree with every decision they made.
Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by wfunction on Sunday December 22, 2013 @03:44AM (#6949785)
> If you don't care to know then you trust the provider to make the decisions for you.

Yeah, and that's also how your provider convinces you to switch to a different provider.

Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by vidarh on Sunday December 22, 2013 @06:53AM (#6950072)
If you have not paid them for support, and whine because you can't be bothered to read up on the product, why exactly do you think they'd consider that a loss?
Re:Ubuntu 14.04 LTS supports TRIM on SSD drives by trentmb on Sunday December 22, 2013 @10:08AM (#6950466)
Perhaps because it ultimately means a smaller install base, which can make Ubuntu less attractive for developers and enterprises, as fewer users are already familiar with it.