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Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by hosh on Thursday December 05, 2013 @03:44PM (#6857089)
I keep seeing this sentiment everywhere. I don't know why people thinks this is a joke, that it is: "illegal," "implausible" and "kind of silly". Yes, Bezos did this to help boost up sales and set up PR to help the lobbying, but that isn't the only thing about it. Why are people so stuck up on the silliness of the idea? Have people stopped being able to exercise their imagination and executing on it? Just because you can't conceive yourself pulling it off does not mean someone else cannot...

Not only do I think Bezos has the imagination and will to pull this off, I know this is being implemented in places outside of the US. It's already happening. Right now. And if it is happening, right now, is it implausible? Is it silly?

By the way, I make a distinction between something we can do and something we should do. I am not sure this is something that is good for the world even though I don't think this is a silly idea. I see another facepalm moment coming up when the folks who have been saying this won't happen start screaming angrily that this shouldn't be happening.

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by baddox on Thursday December 05, 2013 @04:33PM (#6857420)
People tend to underestimate how fast technological progress can happen, even in the field they specialize in, and even if they're consciously aware of this bias. This is why we see everything from skepticism to outright claims of impossibility about commercial delivery drones, even within the RC model aircraft hobby. These guys have seen electric model flight go from being essentially impossible in the 1990s to dominating the hobby shortly thereafter (thanks mostly to the rise of lithium polymer batteries). Then, mostly in the last 5 years, they've seen model multirotors (quadcopters, hexacopters, etc.) go from being an idea, to being a reality for more hardcore hackers [0], to being easy to assemble from parts with very little electronics knowledge [1], to being off-the-shelf toys for 40 bucks [2] (thanks mostly to the open source community and the rise of cheap smartphone sensors like gyros and GPS). It's hard to believe that even most of the multirotor community thinks that commercial drone delivery is a scifi fantasy, given how far multirotors have advanced in 5 years. Personally, my mind would be blown if this isn't extremely commonplace in another 5 years.

[0] http://rcexplorer.se/projects/2010/03/the-tricopter-v1-and-v... Notice that stabilization is accomplished "manually" with 3 gyroscopes.

[1] Thanks mostly to integrated multirotor flight controllers, which contain sensors and a CPU to perform stabilization, like http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19534__HobbyKing_....

[2] http://www.amazon.com/Syma-Channel-2-4G-Quad-Copter/dp/B0096...

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by DrStalker on Thursday December 05, 2013 @05:50PM (#6857973)
I wouldn't say underestimate, I'd say mis-estimate.

Sometimes things sneak up amazingly quickly when no one is expecting them, or actively dismissing them.

Sometimes things that we expect to happen don't, or take a lot longer to happen that anyone thought, or just turn out not to be worthwhile by the time they do happen.

Maybe drones will be delivering packages in a year, maybe they will end up like flying cars; something with huge potential that exists only as a novelty in the present.

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by sliverstorm on Thursday December 05, 2013 @05:44PM (#6857945)
People tend to underestimate how fast technological progress can happen

To borrow a quote that seems pertinent:

We always overestimate the change that will occur in the next two years and underestimate the change that will occur in the next ten -- Bill Gates

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by eshvk on Thursday December 05, 2013 @07:30PM (#6858460)
This is incredibly true. I worked in a robotics research lab in 2008. I remember hours and hours of solving both dynamics equations and spending time messing with rotors trying to get a silly quadrator to move a few feet above the ground. If at that time you had told me that it would be efficient to productionize it today, I would have pointed out battery issues as well as a myriad of other reasons. However, the kind of progress we have had in robotics especially if you look at what companies like Bigdog are doing shows me how non-linear progress really is.
Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by 001sky on Thursday December 05, 2013 @05:16PM (#6857727)
People tend to underestimate how fast technological progress can happen

Counter-example: Internet Bubble 1.0

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by pavel_lishin on Thursday December 05, 2013 @05:24PM (#6857806)
Also: flying cars, fusion power plants, manned interplanetary travel.
Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by baddox on Thursday December 05, 2013 @05:35PM (#6857885)
That wasn't necessarily an underestimation of how fast technological progress can happen. It was more of an economic misestimation.
Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by 001sky on Thursday December 05, 2013 @05:52PM (#6857987)
I don't think so, just look at the mobile sector.

As of 1999, 3G was supposed forecast go live in 2001. But iPhone whent live in 2007 with 2.5G ! Also, in the US 3G sucked and you needed 3.5g to really get usable performance (ie, data) in the field.

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by dredmorbius on Thursday December 05, 2013 @08:19PM (#6858737)
People tend to underestimate how fast technological progress can happen

It depends on the technology and the progress.

If you look at a history of technological progress, there's a very strong case to be made for it having peaked in the period 1880 - 1930 or thereabouts. At the beginning of this period, electric lighting, automobiles, airplanes, radio, refrigeration, indoor plumbing (outside very few exceptions), central heating (indoor plumbing is far more tenable when your mains and sewage pipes don't burst from freezing), steelmaking, widespread photography, cinema, and the beginnings of petrochemistry and pharmaceuticals.

The 1930s-1950s saw petrochemicals, synthetic fibers, plastics, and pharmaceuticals. Radio, television, and microwaves. Solid-state electronics and computers. Aircraft and air transport.

Since 1975 has been a rather different climate. The period from 1933 to 1973 saw huge social and technological tranformations, enough that a person transported from one to the other would need significant acclimatization. From 1973 to the present there've been some changes in hairstyles and clothing, cars have gotten smaller and generally more efficient, airplane tickets cheaper (thanks largely to deregulation) but flights slower, and some technologies first pioneered in the late 1960s (WIMP computer interfaces, Unix, ARPANET (now the Internet), TCP/IP, and microprocessors), have become vastly cheaper and more powerful. _What you can do_ with the technologies hasn't changed so much as who can afford to do them (damned near everybody).

Robert Ayres, "Technological Transformations and Log Waves" describes much of this (in particular it lays out five technological transformations).

http://webarchive.iiasa.ac.at/Admin/PUB/Documents/RR-89-001....

I've discussed this at more length on G+:

https://plus.google.com/104092656004159577193/posts/6sJbXhwj...

What we've seen since the 1960s has been largely confined to increases in computational power and some consequent results of that. In particular, better management of manufacturing and design processes, but all aspects which trace back to Moore's Law. Randall Lee Reetz on G+ frequently iterates over this theme (he's irrascable but technically very solid):

https://plus.google.com/+RandallLeeReetz/posts

In particular, there's a great deal which was predicted or projected starting in the 1950s which hasn't materialized, most of which are hard problems of integration or massive resource utilization. We don't have colonies on the Moon, artificial-gravity space stations (the one assemblage of pressurized cans we do have is the most expensive single structure ever created by humans), orbiting power stations, flying cars, jetpacks, world peace, freedom from hunger, equitable wealth and income distribution (or even educational opportunity), or even highly reliable, privacy-respecting, integrated home management systems. Systems integration is a huge part of any techie's job description, and it's hard.

Regards the specific case of high-speed arial package delivery, outside a limited range and weight limit, I doubt this will be very widespread. Air freight exists, but it's limited to a minuscule fraction of all freight delivery. The EU saw 14.5 million tonnes of air freight in 2011. That compares with 3.6 billion tonnes of sea freight. Road/rail aren't clearly indicated below but are also substantial.

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index....

For the US, air freight is 0.1% of total weight, 0.3% of ton meils, but 7.4% of value (high-value and time-sensitive goods tend to move by air).

http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/programs/freight_transportation/...

Truck value is 63.7%, weight is 58.2%, and ton-miles is 32.1% (shorter-haul, moderate-value goods). http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/programs/freight_transportation/...

Rail is 3.7% of value, 12.0% of weight, and 27.8% of ton-miles (largely low-value bulk goods). http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/programs/freight_transportation/...

Water is 8.3% of value, 14.8% of weight, and 15.3% of ton-miles (domestic). It's over 75% of all international freight by weight.

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by bhartzer on Thursday December 05, 2013 @04:05PM (#6857232)
Bezos did this to boost sales and get free publicity. It still is plausible in a few cities in the US, but I'm sure there will be certain locations where it will be prohibited.

Why couldn't the drones used for delivery indoors, like in an arena for beer delivery? I could see it being adopted indoors first.

For me, it's not a silly idea. Without ideas like this, we won't be pushing the envelope and eventually adopting a similar technology at some point.

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by TrevorJ on Thursday December 05, 2013 @05:26PM (#6857815)
Yours seems to be a common sentiment, but I think there are any number of plausible reasons for doing this including:

-Leverage in dealing with other forms of last mile delivery when it comes to negotiating costs and contracts.

-Kickstarting the necessary legislative framework which will likely take many years to finalize.

-Goading other sectors of industry to start developing and testing the tech needed. Remember, Amz, is not shy about simply buying up companies to acquire technology it needs.

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by hosh on Thursday December 05, 2013 @05:24PM (#6857805)
I've never seen Bezos make a move that did not have at least both a short-term and a long-term effect, if not more. "Bezos did this to boost sales and get free publicity" is a statement underestimating Bezos. The narrative is simply too narrow of scope.
Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by redblacktree on Thursday December 05, 2013 @04:03PM (#6857205)
Where is this already happening?
Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by paulgb on Thursday December 05, 2013 @07:39PM (#6858510)
In Australia, where drones are allowed to fly up to a 122m ceiling, they'll soon be used to deliver textbooks:

http://qz.com/152788/australia-and-china-are-way-ahead-of-am...

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by MrBuddyCasino on Thursday December 05, 2013 @04:23PM (#6857355)
UPS is thinking about it: http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/3/5169878/ups-is-researching...

So is DHL (german link): http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/DHL-will-in-Bonn-Pake...

Admittedly, thats still in the prototype phase.

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by benologist on Thursday December 05, 2013 @04:45PM (#6857497)
Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by serfdomroad on Thursday December 05, 2013 @05:32PM (#6857862)
Seems like a case of - 'First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win.'
Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by rafcavallaro on Thursday December 05, 2013 @05:47PM (#6857962)
The only thing being ignored here is the fact that this week SCOTUS let stand New York State's requirement that Amazon collect sales tax. This would have been the big news story about Amazon this week if not for the suspiciously well timed 60 minutes drone and pony show.
Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by hosh on Thursday December 05, 2013 @05:51PM (#6857978)
Ok. What is the significance of SCOTUS and NY State's requirement that Amazon collect sales tax?

I thought Amazon was already moving towards the reality where they are collecting sales tax in all states, and have things in the works where that won't matter as much profit-wise down the road?

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by Zimahl on Thursday December 05, 2013 @07:54PM (#6858588)
It doesn't matter to Amazon one bit. Amazon is probably going to open stores in various locations anyways which would make them have to collect taxes in those states.

The difference is that now sites like Newegg, which are completely online, will have to start charging and reporting taxes to states that mandate it. It's also a big deal that an individual state can regulate interstate commerce.

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by rafcavallaro on Thursday December 05, 2013 @08:10PM (#6858686)
"Probably going to" is not now. Amazon faces having to collect state sales tax now with no hope that the courts will intervene. I think this does matter to investor perception of amazon.
Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by hosh on Thursday December 05, 2013 @08:02PM (#6858630)
I agree with you.

However, I'd also like to know @rafcavallaro's reasoning: what is the significance of sales tax ruling, and if it is, what is the significance of covering it up with a 60 Minutes broadcast about drone delivery? I could be wrong about what I am seeing. Or maybe @rafcavallaro's reasoning won't hold up if we actually examine it closely. Won't really know until we hear from the person.

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by rafcavallaro on Thursday December 05, 2013 @08:03PM (#6858646)
Instead of "Supreme Court to Amazon: 'collect state sales tax,'" we got "Amazon to deliver by drone." Big players, be they commercial or political, know how work the news cycle - thus is just another example.
Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by Zoomla on Thursday December 05, 2013 @07:59PM (#6858611)
keep dreaming (I would think that this is only possible right next to a warehouse, and I don't think that it makes sense to have a warehouse on every street corner with every possible products in inventory)