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Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by baddox on Thursday December 05, 2013 @04:33PM (#6857420)
People tend to underestimate how fast technological progress can happen, even in the field they specialize in, and even if they're consciously aware of this bias. This is why we see everything from skepticism to outright claims of impossibility about commercial delivery drones, even within the RC model aircraft hobby. These guys have seen electric model flight go from being essentially impossible in the 1990s to dominating the hobby shortly thereafter (thanks mostly to the rise of lithium polymer batteries). Then, mostly in the last 5 years, they've seen model multirotors (quadcopters, hexacopters, etc.) go from being an idea, to being a reality for more hardcore hackers [0], to being easy to assemble from parts with very little electronics knowledge [1], to being off-the-shelf toys for 40 bucks [2] (thanks mostly to the open source community and the rise of cheap smartphone sensors like gyros and GPS). It's hard to believe that even most of the multirotor community thinks that commercial drone delivery is a scifi fantasy, given how far multirotors have advanced in 5 years. Personally, my mind would be blown if this isn't extremely commonplace in another 5 years.

[0] http://rcexplorer.se/projects/2010/03/the-tricopter-v1-and-v... Notice that stabilization is accomplished "manually" with 3 gyroscopes.

[1] Thanks mostly to integrated multirotor flight controllers, which contain sensors and a CPU to perform stabilization, like http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19534__HobbyKing_....

[2] http://www.amazon.com/Syma-Channel-2-4G-Quad-Copter/dp/B0096...

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by DrStalker on Thursday December 05, 2013 @05:50PM (#6857973)
I wouldn't say underestimate, I'd say mis-estimate.

Sometimes things sneak up amazingly quickly when no one is expecting them, or actively dismissing them.

Sometimes things that we expect to happen don't, or take a lot longer to happen that anyone thought, or just turn out not to be worthwhile by the time they do happen.

Maybe drones will be delivering packages in a year, maybe they will end up like flying cars; something with huge potential that exists only as a novelty in the present.

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by sliverstorm on Thursday December 05, 2013 @05:44PM (#6857945)
People tend to underestimate how fast technological progress can happen

To borrow a quote that seems pertinent:

We always overestimate the change that will occur in the next two years and underestimate the change that will occur in the next ten -- Bill Gates

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by eshvk on Thursday December 05, 2013 @07:30PM (#6858460)
This is incredibly true. I worked in a robotics research lab in 2008. I remember hours and hours of solving both dynamics equations and spending time messing with rotors trying to get a silly quadrator to move a few feet above the ground. If at that time you had told me that it would be efficient to productionize it today, I would have pointed out battery issues as well as a myriad of other reasons. However, the kind of progress we have had in robotics especially if you look at what companies like Bigdog are doing shows me how non-linear progress really is.
Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by 001sky on Thursday December 05, 2013 @05:16PM (#6857727)
People tend to underestimate how fast technological progress can happen

Counter-example: Internet Bubble 1.0

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by pavel_lishin on Thursday December 05, 2013 @05:24PM (#6857806)
Also: flying cars, fusion power plants, manned interplanetary travel.
Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by baddox on Thursday December 05, 2013 @05:35PM (#6857885)
That wasn't necessarily an underestimation of how fast technological progress can happen. It was more of an economic misestimation.
Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by 001sky on Thursday December 05, 2013 @05:52PM (#6857987)
I don't think so, just look at the mobile sector.

As of 1999, 3G was supposed forecast go live in 2001. But iPhone whent live in 2007 with 2.5G ! Also, in the US 3G sucked and you needed 3.5g to really get usable performance (ie, data) in the field.

Re:Why Jeff Bezos's Drone Is More Than a Joke by dredmorbius on Thursday December 05, 2013 @08:19PM (#6858737)
People tend to underestimate how fast technological progress can happen

It depends on the technology and the progress.

If you look at a history of technological progress, there's a very strong case to be made for it having peaked in the period 1880 - 1930 or thereabouts. At the beginning of this period, electric lighting, automobiles, airplanes, radio, refrigeration, indoor plumbing (outside very few exceptions), central heating (indoor plumbing is far more tenable when your mains and sewage pipes don't burst from freezing), steelmaking, widespread photography, cinema, and the beginnings of petrochemistry and pharmaceuticals.

The 1930s-1950s saw petrochemicals, synthetic fibers, plastics, and pharmaceuticals. Radio, television, and microwaves. Solid-state electronics and computers. Aircraft and air transport.

Since 1975 has been a rather different climate. The period from 1933 to 1973 saw huge social and technological tranformations, enough that a person transported from one to the other would need significant acclimatization. From 1973 to the present there've been some changes in hairstyles and clothing, cars have gotten smaller and generally more efficient, airplane tickets cheaper (thanks largely to deregulation) but flights slower, and some technologies first pioneered in the late 1960s (WIMP computer interfaces, Unix, ARPANET (now the Internet), TCP/IP, and microprocessors), have become vastly cheaper and more powerful. _What you can do_ with the technologies hasn't changed so much as who can afford to do them (damned near everybody).

Robert Ayres, "Technological Transformations and Log Waves" describes much of this (in particular it lays out five technological transformations).

http://webarchive.iiasa.ac.at/Admin/PUB/Documents/RR-89-001....

I've discussed this at more length on G+:

https://plus.google.com/104092656004159577193/posts/6sJbXhwj...

What we've seen since the 1960s has been largely confined to increases in computational power and some consequent results of that. In particular, better management of manufacturing and design processes, but all aspects which trace back to Moore's Law. Randall Lee Reetz on G+ frequently iterates over this theme (he's irrascable but technically very solid):

https://plus.google.com/+RandallLeeReetz/posts

In particular, there's a great deal which was predicted or projected starting in the 1950s which hasn't materialized, most of which are hard problems of integration or massive resource utilization. We don't have colonies on the Moon, artificial-gravity space stations (the one assemblage of pressurized cans we do have is the most expensive single structure ever created by humans), orbiting power stations, flying cars, jetpacks, world peace, freedom from hunger, equitable wealth and income distribution (or even educational opportunity), or even highly reliable, privacy-respecting, integrated home management systems. Systems integration is a huge part of any techie's job description, and it's hard.

Regards the specific case of high-speed arial package delivery, outside a limited range and weight limit, I doubt this will be very widespread. Air freight exists, but it's limited to a minuscule fraction of all freight delivery. The EU saw 14.5 million tonnes of air freight in 2011. That compares with 3.6 billion tonnes of sea freight. Road/rail aren't clearly indicated below but are also substantial.

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index....

For the US, air freight is 0.1% of total weight, 0.3% of ton meils, but 7.4% of value (high-value and time-sensitive goods tend to move by air).

http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/programs/freight_transportation/...

Truck value is 63.7%, weight is 58.2%, and ton-miles is 32.1% (shorter-haul, moderate-value goods). http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/programs/freight_transportation/...

Rail is 3.7% of value, 12.0% of weight, and 27.8% of ton-miles (largely low-value bulk goods). http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/programs/freight_transportation/...

Water is 8.3% of value, 14.8% of weight, and 15.3% of ton-miles (domestic). It's over 75% of all international freight by weight.