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Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by teddyh on Thursday September 12, 2013 @03:35PM (#6376396)
This gives us four possibilities:

1. This geared creature must be considered part mechanical. A cyborg, if you will.

2. A "gear" is no longer (and was never) a "mechanical" device, but instead an organic one. Using gears is no longer (and was maybe never) doing mechanics.

3. Whether something is mechanical or organic depends on the process which created it. This is the "colored bits" or "patent" view. (If I build something using intuition instead of reason, am I no longer doing mechanics?)

4. A gear is no longer (and was never) either mechanic or organic, and is simply a physical process. The whole "mechanical" and "organic" division is a false dichotomy.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by jonnathanson on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:01PM (#6376555)
There's never been a dichotomy between organic and mechanical. All things that move are mechanical. 'Mechanical' simply refers to motion. 'Organic' is a similarly blurry categorization.

The terms you're looking for are 'natural' and 'artificial,' as in "of nature" and "of artifice (created by man)." These are natural gears, which are so surprising because we'd long assumed the gear itself to be an artificial concept.

Notes:

1) I don't use 'artificial' in the more modern connotation, meaning roughly "fake" or "not genuine." Rather, I use 'artificial' in the original sense of the word, deriving from the Latin artificium, or 'craft.'

2) To be fair, 'mechanical' has increasingly taken on a connotation of artifice or man-make ever since the Industrial Revolution (cf. 'mechanic,' 'mechanism'), but in the truest sense of the word, this is not necessarily the case.

3) My semantical nitpicking aside, I admit you raise some interesting points. I want to acknowledge that.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by niels_olson on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:54PM (#6376884)
> All things that move are mechanical.

How is that blurry?

> 'Organic' is a similarly blurry category

I thought "organic" was restricted to carbon chemistry. Seems pretty specific to me.

> The terms you're looking for are 'natural' and 'artificial,'

It may be that his choice of words conflicts with his meaning, or at least conflicts with your interpretation of his meaning, but doesn't make his original word choices less specific in their inherent meaning.

> 'mechanical' has increasingly taken on a connotation of artifice or man-make

Maybe I'm too far down the rabbit hole, but the Industrial Revolution hadn't even occured to me. There is plenty of mechanical action in the human body, and those have certainly been solids long before Latin came around.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by dragonwriter on Thursday September 12, 2013 @05:18PM (#6377011)
> I thought "organic" was restricted to carbon chemistry.

"Organic" has an older and still more widely encountered use, roughly, "relating to or derived from living organisms".

"organic" as pertaining to carbon chemistry is chemistry jargon that derived from the general use because of carbon's key role in biology.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by jonnathanson on Thursday September 12, 2013 @05:12PM (#6376985)
When I'm talking about "blurry" categorizations, I'm talking about how connotation has blurred what was once a very clear denotation. As in, the literal meanings of words like "organic" and "mechanical" -- which, as you've put it, are not ambiguous in the least -- are being challenged by modern associations of these words outside their original definitions. (A good case in point would be the grandparent comment, which used these words in connotative form to make a point about their denotative meaning).

"It may be that his choice of words conflicts with his meaning, or at least conflicts with your interpretation of his meaning, but doesn't make his original word choices less specific in their inherent meaning."

Not sure I understand what you're saying here. My point is that the words he used were used to frame a false dichotomy, and that the use of more precise words for what (I interpret) he was trying to get at would have improved his thought experiment. As I mentioned, I think he raised some good points, regardless of word choice.

As I also mentioned, "mechanical" (literal) and "organic" (literal) do not form a dichotomy; they are not mutually exclusive categories. Surely you would agree here, as you seem to be saying as much.

"Maybe I'm too far down the rabbit hole, but the Industrial Revolution hadn't even occured to me. There is plenty of mechanical action in the human body, and those have certainly been solids long before Latin came around."

Again, see my point about connotation vs. denotation. The IR is roughly when connotations about the word "mechanical" started muddying the waters. (We should note that the ancient Greeks, from whom the word 'mechanics' descends, were certainly prolific engineers in their own right -- but they were careful not to blur the lines the way English has).

At any rate, I brought up this point simply to give the OP some credit, i.e., that I can see how it's easy to use the word "mechanical" to refer to "artificial," given that modern-day connotation is heading in that direction. This was a side point at best, though, and not the focus of my post.

I apologize to you, and to the OP, and to any unfortunate readers of this discussion, for dragging us down what is indeed a rabbit hole.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by Asterick6 on Thursday September 12, 2013 @11:20PM (#6378383)
No, it's not unfortunate at all. Please continue this kind of explanation and clarification [in the future]. Accurate and precise usage of terms helps maintain specific definitions for each idea/term, and retaining specific denotations (and reducing connotations) for more words will allow one to express more easily and clearly, so there won't be multiple connotations or inspecific, colloquial terms that dilute the meaning of what one wants to say.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by mikeash on Thursday September 12, 2013 @03:49PM (#6376486)
5. The concepts of "organic" and "mechanical" are purely human inventions used to conveniently categorize the world, and there is no reason the world has to obey our desire to fit neatly into categories we devise. Any discussion of the meaning of "mechanical" and "organic" is a discussion of language, not of anything outside humanity.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by gph on Thursday September 12, 2013 @03:58PM (#6376541)
"The map is not the territory"

Very well stated.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by bcgraham on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:00PM (#6376553)
Isn't this the same as #4?
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by nether on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:39PM (#6376800)
Top comment is pretty much, "this changes my whole theory of nonsense which I just invented." It's a pseudoscientific strawman and I can't believe it was upvoted. As a mechanical engineer I see tons of mechanical components in the human body. Diaphragm pumps, ball and socket joints, pinned joints, tensile supports. None of this makes you a cyborg.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by teddyh on Friday September 13, 2013 @08:09PM (#6384041)
I did not invent the nonsense, it was implied by the existence of the article itself. If this flea had used some hitherto unknown chemical reaction, there would have been no article. But use a toothed gear-like structure instead, and suddenly it's an article and a post to HN, no less. This implies that it's something special with gears, which I tried to assume in my comment. I tried to present the inherent contradiction in assuming that gears are special by arguing from the reluctant viewpoint of someone who thinks it is true.

Many commenters seemed to think I was asking a question of which of the possibilities was the correct one, and (correctly) answered that the fourth one was correct. This was not my intent, I merely wanted people to reflect on the possibilities and come to their own conclusion.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by shabble on Thursday September 12, 2013 @09:49PM (#6378084)
> As a mechanical engineer I see tons of mechanical components in the human body. Diaphragm pumps, ball and socket joints, pinned joints, tensile supports.

The chemical engineer points at the vast complexity of enzyme catalysed reactions and intricate supply chains of nutrients.

The electrical engineer observes the networked structure of the nervous system, the myriad signal processing pipelines built all from similar, near-standard components, yet ultimately giving rise to consciousness.

...and the civil engineer gets the blame for routing a hazardous waste pipeline through a recreational area.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by teddyh on Friday September 13, 2013 @08:04PM (#6384025)
Evolved creatures are a strange mix of clever hacks and design-by-committe horrors.

http://threepanelsoul.com/2010/07/05/on-design-by-committee/

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by mikeash on Thursday September 12, 2013 @10:38PM (#6378237)
Physicists think God is a physicist, since everything runs according to simple laws.

Engineers think God is an engineer, because He created order out of chaos, and that's what engineers do.

Programmers think God is a programmer, because where do you think the chaos come from in the first place?

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by mikeash on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:02PM (#6376566)
That occurred to me, but I think it's fundamentally different. "False dichotomy" still admits (and IMO implies) the possibility that these are real actual things, but that the same entity can be both.

This is not a false dichotomy, nor is it a true dichotomy, but a misunderstanding of just what concepts like "mechanical" are.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by bitwize on Thursday September 12, 2013 @03:49PM (#6376483)
5) Organic creatures have mechanical systems as part of their physiology. "Mechanical" doesn't mean "made of metal", it means "uses movement and friction to achieve some effect". Some mechanical devices, such as levers and swivels, are seen frequently in the animal kingdom; others, such as gears, pulleys, and wheels, are almost never seen in nature. Discovering one of this latter category is a fascinating find.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by sliverstorm on Thursday September 12, 2013 @03:59PM (#6376547)
Pulleys are not that rare. Block and tackle is, but you have pulleys in your hands.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by jlgreco on Thursday September 12, 2013 @05:33PM (#6377100)
Wikipedia defines pulleys as "A pulley is a wheel on an axle that is designed to support movement of a cable or belt along its circumference", though I think the wheel/axle requirement is probably shouldn't be considered a hard requirement.

On the other hand, I don't think I would call the loops that fishing line passes through along the length of a fishing pole "pulleys".

I guess I'd say that block and tackle is not common, and neither are "wheeled pulleys", but "friction pulleys" are.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by sliverstorm on Thursday September 12, 2013 @05:55PM (#6377238)
If your line is out, and you take up slack and the fishing pole starts to bow, the loops are indeed functioning as pulleys.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by jlgreco on Thursday September 12, 2013 @06:00PM (#6377275)
Absolutely, in the technical sense, though I would hesitate to actually describe it that way. It seems strange.

Alternatively, shoelace eyelets are pulleys ('block and tackle' in fact) , but describing them that way seems odd.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by sporkologist on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:18PM (#6376655)
e.g. Our arms are levers. Bacteria flagella are rotary bearings. Etc.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by agumonkey on Thursday September 12, 2013 @06:47PM (#6377502)
Completely agree I was a bit stunned. I've yet to see an organic wheel, many of the things humans discovered already existed in nature (cutting tools, chemicals, fire, ceramics), but the wheel seems to be apart from these.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by quasque on Thursday September 12, 2013 @07:30PM (#6377668)
Probably the closest to organic wheels are organisms that form a wheel-like shape in order to roll http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmLS2WXZQxU
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by agumonkey on Friday September 13, 2013 @08:43AM (#6380048)
That's amazing. It lacks the load-bearing side of wheels + rod but anyway, thanks.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by jlarocco on Thursday September 12, 2013 @03:54PM (#6376511)
Your use of "mechanical" makes no sense. The definition of "mechanical", according to Webster's dictionary is: Pertaining to, governed by, or in accordance with, mechanics, or the laws of motion.

Everything that moves can be considered mechanical.

There is no "mechanical" vs "organic" division. It doesn't even make sense.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by cma on Thursday September 12, 2013 @03:57PM (#6376533)
An electric motor, complete with stators, etc. has been known for a while and it didn't change our concept of 'mechanical':

http://www.arn.org/docs/mm/flag_dithani.gif

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by hcarvalhoalves on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:55PM (#6376893)
What is this?
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by Kliment on Friday September 13, 2013 @02:03AM (#6378920)
A flagella. Bacteria use them to move around.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by john_b on Thursday September 12, 2013 @03:46PM (#6376460)
Four. A gear is just a piece of geometry that happens to be useful for a number of practical purposes. Same with rods, rings, and so on. People apply labels to it according to how they perceive it.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by wslh on Thursday September 12, 2013 @03:53PM (#6376507)
And what's the limit for such innovation? can microprocessors be developed naturally?
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by john_b on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:04PM (#6376572)
Brains developed naturally, so I'd imagine evolution would be capable of developing a natural analogue to a microprocessor if there was sufficient and sustained evolutionary pressure for such an adaptation.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by jlgreco on Thursday September 12, 2013 @07:19PM (#6377624)
Wheels/axles at a macroscopic scale seem rather inaccessible to evolution. The problem is keeping two sections of one animal alive across the wheel/axle boundary. You could imagine different ways to grow a wheel/axle structure out of a horn-like material, but it isn't clear what advantage intermediate forms of this would provide. Perhaps it could happen with two separate symbiotic animals though...

Microprocessors (aka, brains) seem pretty straightforward though. Even a little coordination and planning is better than none.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by astrodust on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:43PM (#6376823)
The natural processes that drive this sort of "innovation" never work as cleanly as we do when being intelligent about such things. There are elements of "microprocessor-like" components in creatures, things that will do AND, OR, NAND and NOR type logic computation through neurons, but they're not packaged into an integrated circuit.

If there was evolutionary pressure to produce an integrated circuit, some form of one would undoubtedly evolve eventually.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by nfg on Thursday September 12, 2013 @06:28PM (#6377417)
I get your meaning obviously, but fundamentally tis a strangely Manichaean outlook: they were developed naturally.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by kriro on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:17PM (#6376652)
Makes me wonder. Suppose someone holds some sort of gear-patent and it turns out the gear-structure is used by organisms that predate mankind (or are older than the patent at least)...would said patent become null and void due to "prior art" or is it sufficient that the manmade gear lives in another application domain?
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by andrew_gardener on Thursday September 12, 2013 @03:42PM (#6376438)
I think option 4 is most accurate.

Bones and joints basically act as levers and pivots so why can't gear like body parts be found in other lifeforms.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by dragonwriter on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:07PM (#6376587)
5. "mechanical", in the sense used here (roughly, "performing a function involving physical as distinct from (bio)chemical, nuclear, etc., mechanisms") is orthogonal to any sense of the word "organic", plenty of other biologically-produced structures are "mechanical" in teh same sense; its not that there is a false dichotomy at issue, the senses of the words are well-understood to not form a dichotomy at all, though there are other senses of the same words that might be part of something understood (rightly or not) as a dichotomy.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by ShellfishMeme on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:05PM (#6376576)
5. A gear is no longer (and was never) either mechanic or organic, it's simply a pattern for solving a certain type of problem. Humans and evolution both found it, but it's more useful for humans.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by igravious on Thursday September 12, 2013 @03:44PM (#6376448)
5. All dichotomies are false dichotomies.

6. Creatures like this shake my faith in evolution.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by crusso on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:22PM (#6376690)
6. Creatures like this shake my faith in evolution.

Why? It's easy to imagine a couple of touching pieces in the ancestor of the issid that aided in synchronizing the jumping mechanics.

Over time, mutations in those touching pieces interlocked more firmly until they resembled what we think of as gears. There was pressure on those mutations to proceed toward gears since the gear mechanism is a potentially successful one for achieving the goal of survival through jumping very far, very quickly.

Evolution has yielded some astoundingly more impressive structures. Take a look at this video that explains your own muscle contractions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ309LfHQ3M

The fact that our brains can pattern match the semblance of gears in the issid with gears that we created is a much more impressive development than the gears of the issid themselves.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by boldfield on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:56PM (#6376897)
It's easy to imagine a couple of touching pieces in the ancestor of the issid that aided in synchronizing the jumping mechanics.

Over time, mutations in those touching pieces interlocked more firmly until they resembled what we think of as gears.

If this were the case, would you not expect to observe these evolutionary steps in other organisms today? As noted in the article:

...there are many jumping insects like the issus... [though] most other bugs synchronize the quick jolt of their leaping legs through friction...

If there are "many jumping" insects, how does it come to be that only a single specie (that we know of, granted) that has evolved this feature, and why have we not observed others undergoing the evolutionary process that could/would yield them in others?

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by crusso on Thursday September 12, 2013 @05:21PM (#6377036)
If this were the case, would you not expect to observe these evolutionary steps in other organisms today?

Why? Just because one life form developed a feature doesn't mean that other life forms will have it.

As the article mentioned, there are other solutions to the same problem that other insects evolved. Probably the gears solution is statistically less likely.

Then again, if this was just discovered, how hard have we really been looking?

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by dragonwriter on Thursday September 12, 2013 @05:10PM (#6376962)
> If there are "many jumping" insects, how does it come to be that only a single specie (that we know of, granted) that has evolved this feature, and why have we not observed others undergoing the evolutionary process that could/would yield them in others?

Because evolution isn't planned, it involves selection from randomly[1]-occuring variations each of which has a extremely low probability. Certainly, we see some some traits that arise independently in different populations in different places with similar traits and are preserved and develop in similar ways, but the fact that a feature that contributes to fitness arises uniquely in one place is far from surprising.

[1] well, really, many of the processes are highly-chaotic more than random, but that's beside the point here.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by boldfield on Thursday September 12, 2013 @05:46PM (#6377183)
Certainly, we see some some traits that arise independently in different populations in different places with similar traits and are preserved and develop in similar ways, but the fact that a feature that contributes to fitness arises uniquely in one place is far from surprising.

I grant you all but a feature that contributes to fitness arises uniquely in one place is far from surprising. First, I'm not a biologist and have not studied evolution/evolutionary processes as much as I would like to, but it's hard to agree with that statement. Why exactly is it not surprising? In the over one-million insect species estimated to exist[1], of which some percentage (won't even try to guess) have some evolutionary jumping mechanism, it seems at least mildly surprising that we've never observed at least similarly structured creatures.

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insect#Distribution_and_diversi...

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by dragonwriter on Thursday September 12, 2013 @06:30PM (#6377425)
> it seems at least mildly surprising that we've never observed at least similarly structured creatures.

Its not surprising that some survival-valuable features (especially when they fulfill a function for which there are other mechanisms) arise and are preserved and further developed only once, since them arising in a species in which they are survival-useful is a matter of chance, as is their preservation.

So, its not surprising that features we haven't seen in other species is continue to be discovered. Its remarkable enough to be newsworthy and interesting, but not something that fundamentally challenges the expectations and understandings we have from basic understanding of evolution.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by jlgreco on Thursday September 12, 2013 @06:45PM (#6377499)
"Its not surprising that some survival-valuable features (especially when they fulfill a function for which there are other mechanisms) arise and are preserved and further developed only once"

Indeed. In fact, what I find more surprising is that some non-trivial adaptations have developed more than once. Flight for instance evolved four separate times (bugs, birds, bats, and now-extinct pterosaurs all fly[flew], but none of them share a common ancestor that could also fly.) I find that simply remarkable. Really drives home the massive timescales that are involved.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by dragonwriter on Thursday September 12, 2013 @06:54PM (#6377527)
> Flight for instance evolved four separate times (bugs, birds, bats, and non-extinct pterosaurs all fly[flew], but none of them share a common ancestor that could also fly.)

Surely, "now-extinct pterosaurs", not "non-extinct pterosaurs", unless I missed some very newsworthy discovery.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by jlgreco on Thursday September 12, 2013 @07:08PM (#6377591)
Whoops, thanks for the correction.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by itsybitsycoder on Thursday September 12, 2013 @05:10PM (#6376968)
Because mutations are random. Evolution doesn't result in the ideal designs for everything, just the best (or good enough) of the random mutations that happen. OTOH, if we were designed by something, why would the designer not use the optimal leg designs for all the jumping bugs?
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by biomecha on Thursday September 12, 2013 @05:59PM (#6377263)
> if we were designed by something, why would the designer not use the optimal leg designs for all the jumping bugs?

Because:

- the designer is not that clever,

- the designer likes to play with its creatures,

- the designer is not alone,

- the designer forgot to update its creations,

- or simply because she does not care.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by swamp40 on Thursday September 12, 2013 @06:25PM (#6377405)
Yes, my personal pet theory is that something really smart made a 3D printer-like life machine, and then gave it to thousands of other not-so-smart individuals - who then came up with all these crazy and inconsistent life forms on Earth.

Some designed Bengal Tigers, and others designed Aye Ayes.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by biomecha on Thursday September 12, 2013 @09:59PM (#6378120)
I guess everyone would like to have a chat with the one who came up with the monkey idea.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by vdaniuk on Thursday September 12, 2013 @05:08PM (#6376955)
Statistically, it is very likely that at any given point in time there will be only one species with the trait that humans consider significant.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by boldfield on Thursday September 12, 2013 @05:24PM (#6377056)
I'm about to commit an HN faux pax here, but, citation? Off the top of my head I can think of traits which do not fit your assertion: vision in the 390-700nm wavelengths, hair/fur, eye placement (think predator v. prey), etc, etc.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by dragonwriter on Thursday September 12, 2013 @06:34PM (#6377447)
I think GP used significant in a sense more like "newsworthy", in that, ceteris paribus, the perceived significance of a trait is inversely related to the frequency with which it has been seen in the past.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by vdaniuk on Friday September 13, 2013 @11:04AM (#6380914)
Yes, thanks, that's exactly what I meant.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by astrodust on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:47PM (#6376845)
Exactly. A single bump on each leg might convey a slight advantage, and then the creature that gets two pairs of bumps that mesh together would be even better off. From there it's just a matter of time before creatures with multiple bumps emerge.

Being able to jump quicker than your less-able siblings could convey a huge evolutionary advantage. This quickly weeds out the less-able and strongly encourages this kind of structure to develop once the process has started for whatever reason.

Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by brianpgordon on Thursday September 12, 2013 @03:46PM (#6376457)
Creatures with cool adaptations strengthen my faith in evolution. It's creatures like the panda or the koala or the sloth that shake my faith in evolution.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by EvanKelly on Thursday September 12, 2013 @03:49PM (#6376480)
The sloth's evolutionary advantage is that they are so fucking cool.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by maxerickson on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:36PM (#6376779)
Did you do that on purpose?
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by EvanKelly on Thursday September 12, 2013 @05:34PM (#6377108)
Not sure what you mean, so I guess not.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by maxerickson on Thursday September 12, 2013 @05:53PM (#6377223)
They have a slow metabolism, this requires less energy for survival but also generates less heat.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by astrodust on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:44PM (#6376828)
Do airplanes shake your "faith" in gravity?
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by sengstrom on Thursday September 12, 2013 @03:57PM (#6376534)
Organic vs. Mechanic is a false dichotomy. There is some latitude in how you define either of those terms, but I think you have to be rather extreme to put them in complete opposition.
Re:First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature by cb18 on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:10PM (#6376600)
lenses