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Re:Visual Studio 2013 by evo_9 on Monday June 03, 2013 @02:51PM (#5815043)
Way way way way, WAY too soon Microsoft... most shops, including my current employer aren't even on 2012 yet... Honestly I prefer VS to be tied to desktop OS releases or SQL release or something other than yearly.

This is not a Madden game, nobody is asking for yearly updates for Visual Studio.

Re:Visual Studio 2013 by samirahmed on Monday June 03, 2013 @03:05PM (#5815153)
I find this response almost shocking. Most of HN criticizes microsoft for slow releases cycles, slow change but the Visual Studio has clearly made progress for the better by addressing UserVoice requests, integrating Git etc.

If your employer is to slow to keep updated, why should that slow MSFT down for you while the it is trying to reinvent itself, just catch up in 2015.

Re:Visual Studio 2013 by Silhouette on Monday June 03, 2013 @03:28PM (#5815318)
Most of HN criticizes microsoft for slow releases cycles

Just because it's trendy to bash MS for not releasing new browsers/IDEs/whatever every few weeks, that doesn't mean the vocal critics speak for all of us, nor even necessarily for the majority. I get paid to build stuff that works, and doing so requires stable foundations and reliable tools. Lately, I wish we had more Microsofts in the world paying attention to things like backward compatibility and long-term support, and fewer Googles and Mozillas and Apples who are quite happy to push out updates that break useful things that worked before.

There was nothing wrong with releasing a major version when you had major new features, more frequent minor versions that introduced minor features in a compatible way, and point releases for urgent security issues or bug fixes that didn't change any intended behaviour at all. This approach has worked for a long time, and IMNSHO the recent regular, fixed schedules for updates regardless of actual changes aren't doing most people any favours, and the version-free, always-online, push-updates-whenever stuff is just a mess that causes far more trouble than it's worth.

Re:Visual Studio 2013 by 3825 on Monday June 03, 2013 @09:01PM (#5817100)
>Lately, I wish we had more Microsofts in the world paying attention to things like backward compatibility and long-term support, and fewer Googles and Mozillas and Apples who are quite happy to push out updates that break useful things that worked before.

Did you mean forward compatibility?

Re:Visual Studio 2013 by Silhouette on Monday June 03, 2013 @10:23PM (#5817316)
Did you mean forward compatibility?

No, I really did mean backward compatibility. Specifically, I was thinking of the degree to which MS have supported even very old (by IT standards) APIs and file formats and protocols even in much newer (again by IT standards) systems over the years, and the lengths they have sometimes gone to in order to maintain that support despite the potentially breaking changes not even being their fault in many cases.

However, I would also agree that they are better at forward compatibility than a lot of other major software developers today.

Re:Visual Studio 2013 by malkia on Tuesday June 04, 2013 @01:42AM (#5817919)
If your employer is developing PLUGINS for a specific certain other product, then it has to stick to the COMPILER the product was released for (CRT/C++ runtime compatibility).

So here is one reason. Another one - is money - why spend every (or two) years money on product that is not bringing that much to the table (for a lot of projects at least I've been)

Re:Visual Studio 2013 by MartinCron on Monday June 03, 2013 @03:01PM (#5815117)
nobody is asking for yearly updates for Visual Studio

Ahem... I am. I would much rather have smaller more frequent updates to important tools than huge disruptive ones. Short feedback loops are a good thing.

Re:Visual Studio 2013 by evo_9 on Monday June 03, 2013 @03:14PM (#5815221)
Full new version or Service Packs?

I agree with you but a Service Pack should suffice esp. right after you've release a full new version/update to a major product/tool like VS.

Re:Visual Studio 2013 by MartinCron on Monday June 03, 2013 @03:37PM (#5815383)
The full version vs. service pack distinction doesn't really matter to me.
Re:Visual Studio 2013 by GFischer on Monday June 03, 2013 @04:26PM (#5815722)
It makes a lot of difference to some PHB's, though.

I'm pretty sure I can upgrade to a service pack. Changing versions, OTOH, probably requires approval from management.

Re:Visual Studio 2013 by MartinCron on Monday June 03, 2013 @04:47PM (#5815899)
It sounds like you have bigger problems than can be addressed by the hard-working people in Redmond.
Re:Visual Studio 2013 by GFischer on Monday June 03, 2013 @10:19PM (#5817308)
Undoubtedly, you're correct :)
Re:Visual Studio 2013 by dragonwriter on Monday June 03, 2013 @07:14PM (#5816717)
> I'm pretty sure I can upgrade to a service pack. Changing versions, OTOH, probably requires approval from management.

Two things are apparent: 1) The problem you are addressing is a management problem in your organization, not a problem with Microsoft releasing a new version of VS. 2) You aren't the decision-making customer for Microsoft VS at your organization, so even the problem you had was with VS, it wouldn't necessarily be a problem MS would have much incentive to address.

Re:Visual Studio 2013 by forgotAgain on Monday June 03, 2013 @06:19PM (#5816444)
Short feedback loops are a good thing

That's what service packs are for. With a product that has as big a footprint as Visual Studio it will be impossible for shops to keep up with the annual versions. Many will simply delay updates. Ironically, increasing the speed of major release may actually delay the introduction of some improvements by customers.

Re:Visual Studio 2013 by glhaynes on Monday June 03, 2013 @03:03PM (#5815137)
How does it hurt, though? You say you're not running 2012 yet, so obviously you're not feeling forced to upgrade before you're ready. So why shouldn't they put out the latest bits when they've got them ready and we users can start using them when we're ready?
Re:Visual Studio 2013 by evo_9 on Monday June 03, 2013 @03:08PM (#5815175)
If you've ever had to maintain a large, legacy .net app that has been around since 1.0 or even has some ASP 'classic' code in it, upgrading is a major nightmare. I know at least two shops right now 'stuck' on 2005 because various problems upgrading to 2008, let alone to 2012 or 2013 now. They are more likely to re-write the whole thing in Ruby at this point.

I'm actually running 2012 personally, not such a big deal on that front, my side projects tend to be pretty manageable and not hugely large or sophisticated.

But yeah, you have anything large and enterprise-y, the pain just amplifies each version you are behind.

Re:Visual Studio 2013 by pointyhats on Monday June 03, 2013 @04:50PM (#5815921)
To be honest I dragged a 1.5MLOC .Net 1.1 Web Forms and SQL 2000 application up to 4.0 and SQL 2008 R2 last year.

It wasn't that much of a problem. It took about 3 days and most of that was fixing deprecation warnings and porting the in house test framework to NUnit.

The real problem in the process was getting the build tooling and all the associated crap surrounding the solution up and running. This was also only because the muppets who wrote it originally put it together with sticky tape and string.

Re:Visual Studio 2013 by danbruc on Monday June 03, 2013 @03:50PM (#5815468)
You can install several versions of Visual Studio side by side - keep an old version for maintaining legacy projects, use a new version for new projects.
Re:Visual Studio 2013 by pjmlp on Monday June 03, 2013 @04:15PM (#5815639)
Except you cannot have .NET 4.0 and 4.5 on the same machine, given the way 4.5 overwrites 4.0.
Re:Visual Studio 2013 by danbruc on Monday June 03, 2013 @04:43PM (#5815870)
Version 4.5 was designed to be backward compatible to version 4.0 and is indeed an in-place update. Therefore after installing version 4.5 you will no longer have version 4.0 assemblies but you can still target version 4.0 using the backward compatible version 4.5 assemblies.

Nevertheless I have read some worries that some bug fixes (may) break backward compatibility and therefore projects targeting version 4.0 developed on machines with version 4.5 installed may behave differently when run on machines with only version 4.0 installed. If this is a real problem, that is if there are observable changes and therefore version 4.5 is not fully backward compatible to version 4.0, I can not tell.

UPDATE: There is a published list of breaking changes [1].

[1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh367887.aspx

[deleted]
Re:Visual Studio 2013 by danbruc on Monday June 03, 2013 @05:16PM (#5816069)
After reading through the two linked pages I can not see the relevance. The first article just discusses the in-place update but shows no (real) problems with that. The problem in the Stackoverflow question turns out to be caused by a bug in the OPs code and not by a breaking change between versions 4.0 and 4.5. Of interest may be the linked list of breaking changes [1] and given the size of the .NET framework it is a very short list.

[1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh367887.aspx

Note: The deleted comment was something like »This is not true«.

Re:Visual Studio 2013 by pjmlp on Monday June 03, 2013 @06:07PM (#5816375)
Even if there was only one issue, that is an issue to spend effort working around it if you're the poor soul that needs to do the fix for the product that broke.
Re:Visual Studio 2013 by danbruc on Monday June 03, 2013 @06:58PM (#5816639)
I am still unable to see the problem. It's your decision if you switch to 4.5 or not. If you have projects targeting 4.0 and are unable to ensure that you code does not hit any of the documented breaking changes or if you are unwilling to take the risk of hitting unknown or undocumented compatibility problems, then don't switch to 4.5. Or take a hybrid solution - develop against 4.5 but test against 4.0.

We have deviated quite a bit from the original comment - you can install different Visual Studio (and .NET framework) versions side by side if you have to support legacy projects. There are some case where this will not work - obvious examples are .NET 1.0 not being supported since Vista, .NET 1.1 since Windows 8 - but there are still a lot of cases where this works just fine. If an side by side installation is not possible, you can still just setup up a second machine or a virtual machine for you legacy development needs. Not being able to upgrade Visual Studio because you have to support legacy projects is mostly a non-issue.

Re:Visual Studio 2013 by pjmlp on Tuesday June 04, 2013 @12:57AM (#5817800)
In our case teams that are supporting .NET 4.0 are not allowed to upgrade for .NET 4.5, precisely because of the .NET 4.5 bug fixes that lead to different behaviors between versions.
Re:Visual Studio 2013 by vyrotek on Monday June 03, 2013 @02:53PM (#5815059)
Seriously! My company has been keeping up with the latest stuff but I have hard time understanding what the justification was behind releasing a whole new Visual Studio version. Are there new features that won't be available in VS 2012? I guess we'll see at the Build conference.
Re:Visual Studio 2013 by pjmlp on Monday June 03, 2013 @04:19PM (#5815667)
Update 3 was the last one.

Maybe Microsoft is tight on money. :)

Re:Visual Studio 2013 by trust-me on Monday June 03, 2013 @07:22PM (#5816757)
VS is not there to make money directly, but to sell MS platforms - Windows, SQL Server, etc. They give it away for free to students, startups and pretty much anybody who asks. The only reason all editions are not free is to not kill the other commercial Windows IDEs.
Re:Visual Studio 2013 by pjmlp on Tuesday June 04, 2013 @12:54AM (#5817795)
Really? You don't have to pay for licenses I imagine.
Re:Visual Studio 2013 by sixothree on Monday June 03, 2013 @06:35PM (#5816528)
I'm guessing adoption of 2012 is fairly low.
Re:Visual Studio 2013 by snarfy on Monday June 03, 2013 @09:22PM (#5817153)
VS 2013 is for Windows 8.1.
Re:Visual Studio 2013 by pjmlp on Monday June 03, 2013 @03:54PM (#5815502)
> This is not a Madden game, nobody is asking for yearly updates for Visual Studio.

Sadly it seems to be the way it is going. Most likely driven by Windows 8.1.

Re:Visual Studio 2013 by justncase80 on Monday June 03, 2013 @06:45PM (#5816575)
Re:Visual Studio 2013 by Gazk on Monday June 03, 2013 @03:19PM (#5815265)
There is a new SQL release, SQL Server 14.