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Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by mschuster91 on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @02:22AM (#5523511)
Is it just European bias or is the US largely near a 3rd world country in terms of internet broadband access?
Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by josh2600 on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @02:44AM (#5523580)
Bias, sort of.

The US is actually two separate but interlinked networks.

On the one hand, residential service is 3rd world in most areas. On the other hand, I would argue that the US has the only first world broadband economy, which is our commercial network. The real networks in the US are very fast, 100gigabit fast at the core, but they slow down when you get to residences. Between Datacenters, the Internet is really amazing.

On the resi side, there was a Bush memo that reclassified resi service as "information services" instead of "Telecommunications services"[1] so they gave up the ability to enforce common carriage which is the term for sharing the last mile access.

In short, that is European bias when talking about our business networks, but quite right when referring to our residential networks.

It's a lot more complicated than this, but that's the gist of US broadband. You can't nationalize it because that's socialism and you can't force companies to build networks because that's fascist, so the telcos only build where there's competition: the datacenter.

[1]http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/opinion/11crawford.html?sc...

Edited to add link.

Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by dalke on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @08:12AM (#5524577)
When I read elsewhere "We saw a lot of 100 GbE deployments primarily in core networks over the past couple of years, and now 100 GbE peering is taking off too. Several IXPs around the world, most of whom are Brocade customers, have announced the availability of 100 GbE peering ports or the intent offer them this year: AMS-IX (Amsterdam), DE-CIX (Frankfurt), JPIX (Tokyo), JPNAP (Tokyo), LINX (London), Netnod (Stockholm) and NIX.CZ (Prague)."

I can't help but think that European data centers have core internet of 100Gb as well. Following up on that Stockholm company, http://www.netnod.se/bahnhof-becomes-first-netnod-100-gbps-c... says "Netnod is one out of only four Internet Exchanges in the world that offers 100 GE services." Elsewhere, euNetworks Group Ltd says "The new 100G capability is available between the key cities of Frankfurt, London, Amsterdam and Paris, and also between Dusseldorf, Hamburg, Dublin, and Manchester. " (These are from last year.)

It's therefore hard for me to believe "that the US has the only first world broadband economy" given that many other non-US cities have 100 Gbit service.

I also think it's a bit disingenuous to split a country into its first-world and third-worlds parts. A third-world country can have parts which are very first-world. I think an aspect of being first-world is that private people also have access to good services. In Stockholm, for example, 100 Mbit residential fiber is about $60/month.

Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by josh2600 on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @10:43AM (#5525417)
In the US, it is virtually impossible to find a circuit of 10 mbits up and 10 mbits down for a residence. This was the original goal stated by the Clinton initiatives but this was never reached.

Contrast that with Datacenters where 10gigabit links are common. Sure Europe has 100gigabit core networks, but the US, in terms of aggregate capacity, dwarfs Europe.

But the point is about the difference between our residential and our commercial networks, which are completely separate from a regulatory perspective. We treat residential bandwidth like its cannon fodder for telcos, which is decidedly not first-world.

You make great points but I still think mine are valid.

Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by robflynn on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @02:27AM (#5523526)
I don't think its bias. I cannot get DSL, CABLE, Fiber-anything... My choices are: Dialup, Satellite, or wireless internet.

I can get 3G cell coverage -- sometimes.

My street does have cable television, they just refuse to service the area with internet access. My country has an exclusivity agreement with this cable provider, so no other providers can come into the area.

The sickening factor for me is the fact that I live practically on the county line. I can SEE houses with time warner service from the end of my driveway. They just can't go that extra half mile.

Crazy. So, basically, I end up paying $50/mo for 1down/.3 up. That's with lots of packet loss, too.

Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by noonespecial on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @02:36AM (#5523553)
We lived with that situation for years. Finally we banded together to start a WISP, signed a few people, and put up some antennas (with the blessing of local government) We then started passing out flyers.

The flyers did it. The a cable company had everyone hooked up in less than 6 weeks. They had previously told the county that geography made this impossible while reupping their exclusivity contract.

Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by robflynn on Thursday April 11, 2013 @02:45AM (#5530346)
That's not a bad idea. I'm going to look into this. Thanks!
Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by prewett on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @05:15AM (#5524049)
Great point about the flyers!
Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by kalleboo on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @02:32AM (#5523541)
> My county has an exclusivity agreement with this cable provider, so no other providers can come into the area

I see this over and over, and I don't understand WHY a local government would ever do this. What do they get out of these exclusivity deals?

Meanwhile in my old town in Sweden, the city-owned power company built a supplier-neutral fiber network to promote competition (and a price war).

Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by jff on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @01:08PM (#5526470)
Grant County, in Washington state, did the same thing. The Public Utility District (the power company) built a county-wide fiber network; local ISPs have sprung up to sell access. My parents use a microwave link to the top of a nearby mountain range, where a tower ties them into the fiber net. Speeds aren't great, but when the other choices are satellite or dialup, it's pretty good.

It probably helped that Grant County has several hydro dams in it and sells power all over the place... I assume the PUD was pretty well-funded in this effort.

Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by mschuster91 on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @09:17AM (#5524890)
> I see this over and over, and I don't understand WHY a local government would ever do this. What do they get out of these exclusivity deals?

Short-term available money, e.g. to fund urgent renovation, pay back overdue loans or fund federally mandated services. The latter is popular in Germany, the federal government forces availability of services like child daycare paid by regional authorities, but the federal government doesn't have to foot the bill.

Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by zanny on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @02:44AM (#5523581)
This is how you do internet. Public wire, competitive gateways into the backbone run by private competitors.

Hell, the majority of US phone / cable wire was already paid by taxpayers over the course of a hundred years, local governments just did short term gains for long term screwing by selling them off to big telecos.

Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by shmerl on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @02:31AM (#5523540)
> I can SEE houses with time warner service from the end of my driveway. They just can't go that extra half mile.

Is there a way to create some local network with people who have access in that half mile? Then you can share the bandwidth accessible from their location.

Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by robflynn on Thursday April 11, 2013 @02:50AM (#5530367)
My father works with the guy (or did before he retired) and he's cool with us putting up a tower if we want. Unfortunately, line of site is iffy due to the tree coverage on that end of the property.

There is a company here that does fiber to place of business for either corporations or schools. Unfortunately, it will cost me about $5000 to get everything set up (having the cable run, etc.) and about $120/mo for 10/10.

There's another fiber company in the next county over that says they plan on expanding into the area later this year. I don't know how serious they are, but they offer 50/50, 100/100, and are working on building out gigabit service.

That would be nice.

Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by driverdan on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @11:21AM (#5525663)
Have you considered moving?
Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by robflynn on Thursday April 11, 2013 @02:48AM (#5530355)
I have. I popped back into into the middle of nowhere to help take care of some family things. Fortunately and unfortunately, I landed a programming gig while here with a great company. The pay is not market rate but I love the company and what they do (think non-profit free netflix for deaf/blind students with educational materials.)

I'll end up heading back to California eventually.

Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by 51Cards on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @02:24AM (#5523517)
No, that would be us here in Canada :) Especially on pricing and caps it feels that way sometimes.
Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by lemieux on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @02:36AM (#5523555)
Internet prices in Canada are awful... Videotron is charging me 50$/mo for 10 down / 1 up and a supplement of 30$ for unlimited download... and the other provider in Montreal (Bell) has exactly the same pricing scheme... we have a lot of choices.
Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by josh2600 on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @03:16AM (#5523676)
Start an ISP. You'll make a lot of money.
Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by samegreatsleeve on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @05:07AM (#5524014)
You're kidding right? The issue is not a lack of entrepreneurs.
Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by josh2600 on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @04:24PM (#5527901)
Forgive me for my ignorance, but if rural telcos are building their own networks, what is to stop you from also building your own Network?

Am I missing something?

Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by samegreatsleeve on Thursday April 11, 2013 @04:33AM (#5530689)
what rural telco is building their own network?

in canada, the taxpayers built the network, then a corrupt government signed it over to a private cartel so they could charge rent.

it sounds like you're making some kind of Ayn Rand free market allusion. free markets dont apply when Dagne Taggart owns the government and closes all barriers to entry so that her railroads will never have meaningful competition.

Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by josh2600 on Thursday April 11, 2013 @04:35PM (#5534606)
You are talking about terrestrial networks; that's not what WISPs are building. In a number of developing countries, the ground networks are owned and regulated, but wireless operators are not regulated in the same way.

In San Francisco we have a TON of small wireless ISPs fulfilling the needs of the companies that do business here, without using the last mile telco access.

I'm not living in a dystopian Ayn Rand reality; I'm suggesting an alternative method of delivery, one which is not subject to the same regulatory hurdles.

Of course you can't go and jack into BT's network and undercut them, but you can probably build a WISP without running afoul of the law.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken :).

Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by samegreatsleeve on Thursday April 11, 2013 @10:45PM (#5536279)
You may be right about WISPs.

I was referring to cellular networks and wired networks.

I'm guessing the hurdle is still legal/political. I'm gonna look into this, thanks for the insight

Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by josh2600 on Friday April 12, 2013 @07:39PM (#5541788)
No worries. Check out the meshpotato. If you're really gonna do it, this is the key to service delivery.

http://villagetelco.org/mesh-potato/

Basically it's an Analog Telephone Adapter and a Fixed Wireless receiver built into one, so for a very small price you can deliver bandwidth+telephony to your users.

Cellular and Wired are completely fubarr'd, that's why Africa bypassed them.

Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by zanny on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @02:47AM (#5523591)
I have Verizon DSL with 3mbps up / 1mbps down a hundred miles north of Philly. Local cable co would be an option, but my mother watches a lot of netflix and I download youtube videos by night (because I can't concurrently watch anything across 2 screens) and the cable company due to their monopoly puts up 50 gig caps. And that is the $60 a month 15/1 plan.

I used 195 GB in January, for example.

So I'm stuck on Verizon. They have jacked the rates up from $25 in 2004 to $40 today for the exact same (nonexistent) service. No other options in the area. At least they don't put bandwidth caps on their DSL service. Yet.

If that happens, I'm moving to Kansas City or Austin. I'll take a plane and go door to door at startups or tech companies to find work from a hotel room. My college had crap internet too, but back home it is so bad it is like the dark ages.

Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by cmelbye on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @02:40AM (#5523570)
I'm getting 81 Mbps download speeds right now on my laptop and have 4G on my phone wherever I go, not really near a 3rd world country as far as I know.
Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by tiglionabbit on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @02:48AM (#5523593)
How? Are you in Google Kansas?
Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by nknighthb on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @03:37AM (#5523733)
Comcast has had 100mbps service available in some areas for a while now.
Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by knowaveragejoe on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @09:57AM (#5525144)
Among many other ISPs. If you live in any of the major metropolitan areas it's the norm.
Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by tiglionabbit on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @10:18PM (#5529567)
What major metropolitan areas? Would San Francisco or Los Angeles count?
Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by jules on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @10:15AM (#5525242)
I noticed that there have been a lot of comments lately saying "Interesting, the US is nearly a 3rd world country in terms of measure X", where X is income distribution, incarceration rates, civil rights, certain diseases/causes of death, etc.
Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by shmerl on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @02:28AM (#5523533)
US is very much behind in terms of quality and adequate pricing for Internet access. It's mostly the result of sick monopolies developed around it.
Re:AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network by anigbrowl on Wednesday April 10, 2013 @02:24AM (#5523518)
No, yes.