News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by yummyfajitas on Thursday March 28, 2013 @06:36AM (#5454082)
It isn't screwed up. In broad strokes, we understand very well. Calories in - calories out = weight gain. This has been demonstrated in thousands of lab studies.

That's about 85%. Now we are just figuring out details and special cases.

Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by raverbashing on Thursday March 28, 2013 @06:46AM (#5454102)
Exactly, that's 85%

Someone with a (big enough) caloric deficit will lose weight, sooner or later

Someone with a (big enough) caloric surplus will gain weight.

Big enough is because the body will adapt its metabolism to small (and one shot) caloric surpluses/deficits.

But what happens beyond that is very interesting. And so beyond the 'food pyramid' and "conventional knowledge" it's not funny.

Oh and by the way, protein diets (usually) work. Why? Caloric deficit (of course) promoted by modified hunger sensation (that's another piece of the puzzle).

Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by SoftwareMaven on Thursday March 28, 2013 @09:59AM (#5454746)
Losing weight is immaterial. Keeping weight off is what matters, and pretty much every study for the last 100 years has shown reducing calories does not keep weight off. Just the opposite: reducing calories invariably leads to a gain of 5-7%.
Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by yummyfajitas on Thursday March 28, 2013 @01:24PM (#5456246)
In a lab with controlled portions people lose weight.

Outside the lab where they are free to revert to gluttony they also typically revert to their original weight (exactly as harris/benedict predicts).

Cals in/cals out works fine. But only if you actually work it. I've successfully used it myself to modulate my weight in both bulking and cutting cycles, as well as reducing my weight from obese to healthy back in the day.

Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by raverbashing on Thursday March 28, 2013 @10:08AM (#5454805)
"and pretty much every study for the last 100 years has shown reducing calories does not keep weight off."

That is possible if it's a small reduction of calories and you're not very far off your ideal weight.

Otherwise is a thermodynamical impossibility.

And yes, losing weight is one problem, keeping it off is a different matter.

Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by SoftwareMaven on Thursday March 28, 2013 @11:18AM (#5455305)
It is not thermodynamicly impossible because your body is not a fixed system. It can (and does) regulate energy usage based on how much energy it is receiving, what kind of energy it is receiving, what the environment is (primarily reflected through cortisol and stress), etc. all of these intertwine, making it nearly impossible to look at calories alone to measure, well, much of anything.

Reducing calories causes the body to reduce its calorie usage and starts pumping hormones that cause fat to be retained and your desire to eat to increase, until the hormonal system forces an "override" where you have to eat more. Sure, there are some people who manage to overcome the hormonal override, but they are by far the exception and not the rule, and any weight loss program that tries to override the body's built-in protections against starvation (which go back who knows how long and exist in pretty much any animal) is a recipe for failure.

The keys to the whole hormone cycle are insulin and leptin. Any successful weight loss regimine will have to address those hormones, which calorie reduction "inflames" rather than "pacifies".

Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by raverbashing on Thursday March 28, 2013 @11:40AM (#5455467)
Yes, you are right (and explained it quite nicely)

But there's an absolute minimum of calories the body need to operate, even at 'low gear' (I'm not sure, but this is around 1000kcal per day), so if you're really limiting the calories below a certain point you will lose weight.

Apart from that, if you're trying to lose weight, but not actually consuming less calories, of course you may have a weight gain.

Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by SoftwareMaven on Thursday March 28, 2013 @12:56PM (#5456043)
Fair enough, but I would say that's only useful if you are wanting to lose a little weight before a cruise or want to get into a lower weight class for a wrestling match. Weight loss that doesn't "stick" is probably more dangerous than not losing, because it tends to focus as visceral fat instead of subcutaneous fat; and, unfortunately, study after study[1] show that dieting does not result in long-term weight loss[2].

1. This is a review of 31 studies that comes to the same conclusion: http://mann.bol.ucla.edu/files/Diets_don%27t_work.pdf

2. My anecdotal story, I tried restricting calories for 15 years with the result of hitting 350+ pounds. Seven years after a gastric bypass, I've found low-carb to be the only way I can maintain my weight. Even with the gastric bypass, I can't limit myself to the 1200 calories or less a day I would need to maintain (and I feel like crap). Low carb, I never have to even think about the number of calories (I trade one number for another :) and my energy goes up.

I was experimenting with this and, when the results were positive, it really drove me to understand why the results are positive. I'm (slowly) starting to get an understanding of the biochemistry involved (that is a lay understanding, for sure!).

Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by yummyfajitas on Thursday March 28, 2013 @01:25PM (#5456253)
If people choose to overeat and do not lose weight (as you assert occurs), that is not evidence against cals in/cals out.
Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by tomwalker on Thursday March 28, 2013 @08:35AM (#5454395)
I suppose it is diminishing returns on research investment.
Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by SoftwareMaven on Thursday March 28, 2013 @09:57AM (#5454736)
The fact that you say calories in == calories out is typical of my complaint. Follow the metabolic pathway of glucose versus fructose in the liver and you quickly see a calorie is not a calorie, and many types of calories are much worse for you than others. Look at how ketones impact cell efficacy (admittedly, early results in rats hearts) and contrast that with conventional wisdom of "ketones are poison" and you can see the study of nutrition and obesity has not followed the study of biochemistry and endocrinology at all.
Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by crusso on Thursday March 28, 2013 @09:13AM (#5454559)
I think the obesity epidemic demonstrates quite clearly how incorrect our understanding of nutrition has been.

The relatively recent acknowledgement of the role of the insulin response to refined carbohydrates is a major example of how "calories in - calories out = weight gain" is far too simplistic a view.

Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by DanBC on Thursday March 28, 2013 @09:21AM (#5454591)
> I think the obesity epidemic demonstrates quite clearly how incorrect our understanding of nutrition has been.

No, I think it's an excellent demonstration that for most people 'calories in' is the primary driver of weight gain.

There's not an epidemic of people getting fat from eating 2,500 kcal per day but which is mostly refined carbs.

Most people who are overweight are eating far more calories than that, usually as sugar or fat. They have problems with portion control, and recognising just how much they are eating.

I'm being careful to say 'most' because as this research shows there's a small number of people who might be affected by other things.

Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by crusso on Thursday March 28, 2013 @09:26AM (#5454610)
calories in' is the primary driver of weight gain

As another poster points out elsewhere in this thread - that's like saying that fuel consumption is the primary cause of auto accidents.

They have problems with portion control, and recognising just how much they are eating.

Nutrition is about far more than calories in. Controlling cravings through controlling the insulin response is enormously important. The types of foods that make up calories is enormously important.

Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by SoftwareMaven on Thursday March 28, 2013 @10:01AM (#5454761)
Overweight doesn't matter. Metabolic disorder matters, and that can be traced to simple, refined carbs. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM&sns=em.
Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by Shorel on Sunday March 31, 2013 @07:40PM (#5470653)
Thousands of biased studies.

Not a single one of them defined low carbs as 5%, in them low carb was like 30%.

30% carbs will make anyone fat with enough calories (exactly what you said was demonstrated.

I'll wait for the 5% carbs version.

Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by cooldeal on Thursday March 28, 2013 @08:47AM (#5454438)
The body isn't a closed thermodynamic system. You have to take into account metabolism, the human waste that is eliminated, the satiety of the foods consumed, etc. Not to mention the make up of bacteria as evidenced in the article.
Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by minimize_me on Thursday March 28, 2013 @09:41AM (#5454675)
And also that weight isn't the variable you should be optimizing, but rather body composition.
Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by epo on Thursday March 28, 2013 @02:54PM (#5456904)
Sophistry. For most people change in weight is an excellent approximation to change in fat composition.
Re:Bacteria in the Intestines May Help Tip the Bathroom Scal... by __--__ on Thursday March 28, 2013 @04:54PM (#5457532)
I disagree. There are ways of dieting in which your fat composition declines, but your muscle composition stays the same. Most diets, where you simply reduce the number of calories going in, results in a weight loss of 50% fat and 50% muscle (ie: if you lose 2 pounds, 1 pound is fat and 1 pound is muscle).

You're also making the assumption that less fat results in a healthier human being. that is also something that depends entirely on the nutrient content of your food. You can lose weight by eating nothing but small portions of white rice, but it's not going to result in a healthy individual.