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Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by greenyoda on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @12:31PM (#5401873)
The worst offenders are the professors who write their own textbooks (even though there are dozens of better ones already available) and then use them in their courses, making money off each student. Maybe there should be conflict of interest rules in universities.

The heroes in this game are the instructors who are creating open-source textbooks.

Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by sib on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @12:46PM (#5401983)
I had a professor who was a co-author on the textbook that we used in his class. It was the "standard" work in the field, so it would have been ridiculous to use a different one. Nonetheless, he acknowledged the potential conflict, gave us an accounting of his earnings per copy (well under a dollar per), and bought food for the class out of his own pocket. Good solution, I thought.
Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by ScottWhigham on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @01:08PM (#5402142)
I'm upvoting your comment for your professor. Please serve as proxy and go deliver the upvote to him. He sounds like "good people".
Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by abraxasz on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @03:31PM (#5403050)
Had a somewhat similar story. Took a class whose instructor had written the reference book in the field. We used his textbook, but instead of having us buy it, he gave out free photocopies of the preprint for the yet-to-be released newest edition.
Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by koenigdavidmj on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @07:50PM (#5404496)
Tadayoshi Kohno at UW?
Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by neilc on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @01:49PM (#5402433)
The worst offenders are the professors who write their own textbooks (even though there are dozens of better ones already available) and then use them in their courses, making money off each student.

I think you are seriously overestimating the financial gains such a professor would make. I've taken several classes with profs who teach from their own textbook; the profit per book sold that a prof receives is usually minimal (either because the book is sold for near cost or because the publisher takes most of the profit). In fact, most such textbooks (essentially just rigorous lecture notes) are downloadable for free anyway.

If you want to make extra money as a professor, writing a textbook and then forcing it on a single class of students is about the least effective money-making scheme I can think of.

Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by nitrogen on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @01:56PM (#5402476)
I had an intro EE class where the professor required students to buy practically unreadable handwritten notes from the university copy center. The price breakdown on the copy center receipt: $1.50 for the copies, $8.50 for royalties to the professor.

Later on I took MITx's prototype 802.11x online course, where I learned far more and managed an A. In that case the professor actually cowrote the textbook, but there was a free online copy for the online class, and the textbook was actually good.

Edit: in another case, another course at the same university used a custom printed textbook sold exclusively by the university for well over $100, that was just a few chapters from one $15 book and the complete contents of another $20 book bound together.

Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by chaz on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @02:23PM (#5402642)
100 students x $8.50 is only $850/semester. Even if the class was 500 students, that's still not an overwhelming amount of money for writing a book. If you're teaching classes that large, you're probably making more money on the lecture circuit and become advisors/consultants at companies.
Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by quasse on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @03:14PM (#5402940)
You would be surprised how low some professors will stoop. My sophomore engineering graphics class required payment of $35 in royalties and $5 in copy fees (going by the standard rate of .10 a page) just to get a printed copy of the PDF course packet (required to pass the course). It wasn't bound or anything, we literally had to go to the privately owned copy center and fork over $40 and then wait while they printed it off and then handed us a stack of paper.

I know that there were ulterior motives on the professor's part because I specifically asked to just print it out myself and was told that the TAs had been specifically banned from allowing students access to the PDF version for printing.

This was a 300 person lecture taught twice per year.

300$352 is $21,000. Suddenly that looks pretty appealing to the professor who thinks he could use a new bass boat this year.

Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by lotso on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @03:51PM (#5403165)
Was any of the content copyrighted and therefore the cost was to pay for licensing that content? That was a common cause for the somewhat high prices for our course readers in college.
Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by vlahmot on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @02:38PM (#5402743)
So the students should pay that cost? That is absurd. The school should either pay the teacher more or lose them. The financial burden of keeping the professor there should not be placed on the students outside of their tuition.
Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by nitrogen on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @03:17PM (#5402956)
This wasn't a book; it was a bunch of photocopied handwritten notes, maybe 100 pages at most, that appeared not to have been updated in years.
Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by johnrgrace on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @06:28PM (#5404043)
In the late 90's I took an intro psyc course and the prof wrote his own online textbook, mass 300 student lecture and we all had to "subscribe" to his book for $40 each, he taught 3 sections a semester. He had $72k a year on sales, because you couldn't pass the course without the "book". It was one the most god awful eye bleeding design I've ever seen. But, yes you CAN make decent money off selling your own textbook to students on the 101 level.
Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by rogueriver on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @03:23PM (#5402994)
I agree. I once had a to buy a professor's book. It was $240.00 of confusing sentence structure, no diagrams(other than manafacture's publicity material, written terribly). He actually made a slightly complex topic seem like we were finding the "God Particle".

As to his profit, I'm not sure how much he made off of each book, but the book is used across the world. The only reason I think any instructor would use his book is because it's a niche subject matter; the mechanics and theory of hydronic heating systems.

If Dr. Hydronics ever reads this--you're probally a nice guy, but you made a relatively simple subject complex. Funnel your sentences. Use numbers. Don't use unnessary words. KIS(keep it simple).

Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by SeanLuke on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @01:47PM (#5402422)
This is far too unkind. Professors rarely make more than a pittance on their textbooks. They nearly always write textbooks because they need a textbook in a certain area and there isn't an adequate one. It is an extremely demanding task with little payoff. The ethical error the professor has made is not in making money off the student (he's not) but in choosing a publisher which charges ridiculous prices without thinking about how this impacts on his own students.
Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by mbreese on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @12:43PM (#5401960)
I had a prof who wrote his own textbook and it was one of the best I ever had. It was sold at a little more than cost, so he made like $1 from each of us.

It all depends on the prof and the content.

Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by freehunter on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @12:47PM (#5401988)
My biology prof did this, with the exception that she had written a workbook and our homework was filled out on the pages. This meant we were paying for paper to turn our homework in on and the book was unable to be sold back.
Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by joezydeco on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @12:58PM (#5402065)
I think this is how more textbook publishers are going to go.

My wife bought a "textbook" for a language class and it was, and I kid you not, 300 loose pages with binder holes punched in them. See, it's a textbook AND a workbook! And sure, some of the pages were workbook pages. But there's no way any bookstore would buy that back as soon as the shrinkwrap was broken.

Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by HarryHirsch on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @01:31PM (#5402308)
Departments do do that - usually because they are short of funds and the money raised is used to fund consumables for lab classes. The university cannot raise a surcharge for certain classes, but they can sell equipment (read: course workbook) for that class. It's iffy, but still on this side of fine, no one makes a profit of it.

There is no excuse, though, for having to sign up for an account with a commercial publisher for exercises that are a part of your grade in that class. Normally you would pay a bunch of TAs to administer and grade the tests, but the university is too short of funds for that. So they outsource the grading to a commercial entity.

Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by potatolicious on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @03:31PM (#5403049)
I had a prof that did this. Except he sold his book through the school printhouse for $25, when the competing alternatives where all $200+.

It was hand-bound by some poor soul in the printing office and was clearly churned out with a laser printer, but it got the job done and saved everyone a bundle.

If the prof made some money off of this, I'm fine with that.

Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by zacksjoden on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @12:45PM (#5401975)
In maths at my local community college the teacher made lesson plans for the 3 latest editions of the book, allowing students to be able follow along with whatever one they had/could afford.
Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by fnordfnordfnord on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @07:46AM (#5406637)
I do that too. Unfortunately, the college bookstore (B&N) buys up old editions and has them shredded.
Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by claudius on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @01:33PM (#5402321)
Isn’t it quite common nowadays for lecturers to just type up their lecture notes and make them available online (for free, obviously)? At least that’s what happened at the last two universities I attended, with other lecturers in the same department possibly reusing said notes. A few of such notes even made it to arXiv.

Of course, they will still suggest looking at some textbooks, but only on the rare occasion that they don’t want to include a proof or more information in the notes themselves - and then these books are naturally available in the library’s reference holdings.

Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by megaman821 on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @02:47PM (#5402795)
I have had several professors who taught course requiring their own textbooks. In every case though, the textbook was made available at printing cost or given away for free at a cost to the professor, since they also felt it was a conflict of interest to profit off their class requirements.

I would definitely drop a class where a professor started a semester by doing something so ethically gray.

Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by slaxman on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @12:40PM (#5401943)
I don't think it is wrong for a professor to recommend his book for his course. But it is definitely wrong for him to force his students to use them. We had a lot of profs in college who had written books and recommended them. But if you attended the classes you really didn't require the textbooks in the first place.
Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by fnordfnordfnord on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @07:58AM (#5406673)
1. If I go to the trouble of writing a textbook, I'd do it because I felt there was something lacking in the other available texts/materials.

2. There is really no way to force a student to do anything.

Disclosure: I list some printed texts and reference books as required on my syllabi. I do this because I give open-book, open-note exams; but I do not allow the use of electronic devices (except pocket calculators).

Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by slaxman on Tuesday April 02, 2013 @03:48AM (#5478159)
Very good point. In fact, I have noticed the exam same issue while teaching. We need to refer multiple books. There is no book which covers the entire course in an understandable manner. One has to then resort to writing his own notes for the class.
Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by nutmeg on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @01:33PM (#5402323)
My university had a rule that textbooks written by the instructor had to be provided at cost. The instructor had hard copies available from the local print shop.

In another case, our professor contacted the author of the book and got cheap locally printed and bound copies. Something like $15 vs. $180.

Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by kyrra on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @12:38PM (#5401930)
I had a professor that created his own textbook that he taught out of. His lectures were him writing the textbook on the whiteboard. This was a good 1.5 hour nap every tuesday/thursday.
Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by fabriceleal on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @01:57PM (#5402492)
I also had a couple of professors that did the exact same think for a course.

Most of the professors gave away the slides of the course, and even more additional material; these ones gave nothing but a bunch of literally useless tables and charts, completely worthless for the exams.

Needless to say, this textbook was the only and obligatory literature for the course.

Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by kd0amg on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @07:55PM (#5404527)
Maybe there should be conflict of interest rules in universities.

Where I studied (undergrad, at least), there were conflict of interest rules -- professors were not allowed to collect royalties on books they use in their classes.

Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by driverdan on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @11:23PM (#5405415)
I had a professor who wrote one of the books used in his course. It was sold at cost and he complained about the price (something like $15), wishing he could decrease it.
Re:Supreme Court sides with student in case over textbooks by khuey on Tuesday March 19, 2013 @05:25PM (#5403729)
At the university where I studied, the one course I took where the professor literally wrote the book had the book on sale at cost at the university bookstore.