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Re:Ubuntu on tablets by pajju on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @11:54AM (#5245336)
They learnt everything from others by launching late, but added most of the good design patterns. Great work all together. Worth mentioning, Ubuntu is emerging as perfect web platform with tight integration with web-services.

"And now web applications are first class citizens too, wow. I was waiting for this to happen fast."

At this stage they need:

1. More Partners.

They must have strong tie-ups with OEM partners, who can make in-expensive devices, otherwise its not going anywhere. Get those chinese manufacturers.

2. Please NO device fragmentation and open strict standards among OEM's.

3. Nokia backing up this project?

Isn't this the best time for Nokia to make Ubuntu powered devices? I think so.

Under the current circumstances, Ubuntu and Nokia can make a good win-win fit. Nokia maybe can now come back strongly, instead of believing in a closed ecosystem like windows, which is not going anywhere.

3. Get Funded.

4. Apps. Quality and tested apps.

Can this happen with Open Source methodologies? Debatable. :)

All together this is great progress in a short span. Incredible team-work, lets not forget this comes from Open Source World. Love this, Made my day.

Re:Ubuntu on tablets by mtgx on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @12:08PM (#5245454)
2. The apps will remain compatible, just like on Android, but I fear they will give too much control over to carriers. From what I understand they want to give "total branding power" over a device to carriers. So we'll see how they go about that without pissing off the user. If it's subtle enough it might work. But I still hate the idea of giving even more power (again) to the carriers.

The carriers should be powerless when it comes to the devices they sell. They should be no more than retailers. Who has ever heard of retailers messing with the products? No one, because that's a crazy idea. Yet that's what the carriers are doing, and will probably do even more with these new operating systems desperate for market share.

3. Why should Nokia back this project up? I mean why specifically them, and not Samsung, HTC, Sony or Huawei? Also there's zero chance they will do it. They didn't back Meego, they killed Meltemi, they aren't backing Sailfish, and they will back Ubuntu? Why? Microsoft would never allow it. And we all know Nokia is just a subsidiary of Microsoft now.

4. One of my biggest problems with Linux in general looking at it from a "consumer" point of view, has always been how ugly the programs look on Linux. They are cringe worthy, and I hate the font, too. I don't know what they're doing here, but I really hope Canonical is serious about design guidelines and resources for developers, much like Apple, Google and Microsoft have done it. They need to make it dead-easy for just about any developer to create beautiful Ubuntu apps at least with the stock resources.

This should be one of their top priorities with Ubuntu, not only on mobile, but on the desktop, too. So I hope they're using resources and design guidelines that will scale well to the desktop, too. And I still think they need to rethink the Unity UI to make it more user-friendly and less frustrating.

Re:Ubuntu on tablets by ajross on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @03:06PM (#5246714)
It's an open source OS. How is "carriers should be powerless" compatible with "users should have all the power?". The carriers are downstream users...

Now, I'm all in favor of interoperability requirements and limits on redistribution that infringes on freedom (c.f. automatic patent grants, antitivoization, etc...). But for branding? I just don't see it. If I, personally, am allowed to reskin my Ubuntu device, surely Verizon must be also, no?

Re:Ubuntu on tablets by chimeracoder on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @03:20PM (#5246816)
> If I, personally, am allowed to reskin my Ubuntu device, surely Verizon must be also, no?

That depends on whether or not they distribute it with any of Canonical's trademarks (I'm assuming they have a trademark on Ubuntu, not to mention their own name).

Trademarks are completely independent from (and compatible with) open-source - look at 10Gen, which preserves the rights to the MongoDB name while releasing a product under the GPL.

Re:Ubuntu on tablets by ajross on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @03:26PM (#5246837)
Well, of course. But that's the point. Verizon can reskin it in exactly the way that CentOS does RHEL. And I have no problem with that. My interpretation was that mtgx thought this freedom (shared by me, Verizon, and whoever else wants to use it) was a bad thing ("the carriers should be powerless"), and I disagree.
Re:Ubuntu on tablets by stcredzero on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @01:31PM (#5246075)
> The carriers should be powerless when it comes to the devices they sell. They should be no more than retailers. Who has ever heard of retailers messing with the products? No one, because that's a crazy idea.

It's even a doofy idea for car dealers to tack their own logo plaques on the back of your car. Annoying.

Re:Ubuntu on tablets by tcdent on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @08:42PM (#5248445)
One of the first things I do with a new car is get rid of the branded license plate frames. I seem to be a minority though, as most people either don't seem to care, or can't wield a screwdriver.
Re:Ubuntu on tablets by biot on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @12:37PM (#5245685)
Ubuntu is free so they need to make their money somehow, and consumers are unlikely to spring for Canonical's expert training, support, or consulting fees. Perhaps if you had to purchase Ubuntu for $29 on top of your naked device price (there's likely very little margin in the hardware), the incentive to charge carriers for customization wouldn't be there.
Re:Ubuntu on tablets by MatthewPhillips on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @12:36PM (#5245675)
The only way to make carriers powerless is if consumers buy phones unsubsidized. Even Apple makes concessions to carriers.
Re:Ubuntu on tablets by pekk on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @02:17PM (#5246393)
They often do outside the US.
Re:Ubuntu on tablets by pjmlp on Wednesday February 20, 2013 @03:15AM (#5249462)
Which is quite common in Europe.
Re:Ubuntu on tablets by spyder on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @02:41PM (#5246553)
Ubuntu design guidelines: http://design.ubuntu.com/apps
Re:Ubuntu on tablets by jckt on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @04:20PM (#5247110)
Isn't Android basically Linux? Android looks pretty good (definitely so, as of late).
Re:Ubuntu on tablets by untog on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @12:24PM (#5245593)
Why on earth would Nokia back this project? If they make a tablet it's going to be a Windows 8 device.
Re:Ubuntu on tablets by azakai on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @12:35PM (#5245668)
It would make sense for Nokia to not put all its eggs in one basket. Windows is not doing well on mobile devices, so Nokia investing in other options would be the safe thing to do.
Re:Ubuntu on tablets by davidweir on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @01:10PM (#5245920)
In a sense, not putting their eggs in one basket was their downfall: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/10/nokia_ui_saga/
Re:Ubuntu on tablets by enjo on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @01:45PM (#5246185)
That's not about putting their eggs into separate baskets, it's about Nokia's shortcomings in terms of both management and engineering.

I worked very closely with Nokia during that time period. As closely as one could work without being directly employed (we deployed a product directly to the S60 baseline).

What happened at Nokia was the end result of years of engineering neglect. Symbian was a monster. It was poorly engineered in general, and certain subsystems (like messaging) had a reputation for simply being impossible to work with. It was just a huge mess.

The UI saga was just another symptom of that mess. That touchscreen phone referenced in the article? It existed well before the iPhone in various incarnations. They spent years trying to push that thing over the finish line, and failed. The underlying graphical subsystems gave them problems. The new form factors presented by the emergence of touchscreen slate devices proved at odds with a whole host of assumptions made throughout the (huge) Symbian/S60 codebase.

The whole thing was just a giant hot mess.

It's possible that competing internal frameworks could have worked. The ultimate problem is that they never developed one compelling UI paradigm/library that actually worked. Much less worked in a well integrated way across the whole platform.

Nokia failed at project management. They failed at engineering. They failed at leadership.

Now they're just another OEM.

Re:Ubuntu on tablets by jussij on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @09:34PM (#5248631)
History has shown us that Nokia was always good at hardware and very bad at software.

I suspect they've learnt from that and now leave the software side to Microsoft, while leaving them free to focus once again on creating good hardware.

Re:Ubuntu on tablets by sultezdukes on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @12:46PM (#5245749)
And you think that Ubuntu on mobile devices is going to do any better?

Nokia screwed up, but diverting resources to an even more miniscule market is even crazier.

Re:Ubuntu on tablets by azakai on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @12:49PM (#5245783)
It is not miniscule, it is 0% right now ;) But again, the question is of putting all the eggs in one basket or not. Ubuntu and other non-windows mobile OSes each have different approaches, hard to say which will succeed. It's foolish to bet on just one if you are as big as Nokia.
Re:Ubuntu on tablets by MatthewPhillips on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @01:15PM (#5245952)
What I don't understand is why these late-comers continue to try and build their own self-contained ecosystem of apps. Microsoft with all its money still barely has a decent ecosystem and even that has a lot of holes. There's 0 chance that any other is going to be given the time of day. Blackberry hinging on Gingerbread apps is just silly.

Instead they should be betting on the web, completely. Ubuntu, being a traditional Linux distro, has a big library of desktop apps that can be cross-compiled in Emscripten, but instead they split their much smaller resources between several different options.

Re:Ubuntu on tablets by marssaxman on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @01:41PM (#5246155)
Web apps just aren't as nice as real apps, and all the existing platforms already support them too. If there's nothing your new platform can do that the existing ones can't, and your message is "just deal with the 80% solution that is the web app world", why would anyone use your new system?
Re:Ubuntu on tablets by MatthewPhillips on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @03:28PM (#5246847)
Apps that exist are better than apps that don't exist. Ask WebOS users, the few that still are out there. The only way to make web apps as nice is to put the engineering effort into making them as nice (something only Mozilla is seriously doing at this time). Another proprietary mobile ecosystem isn't going to be adopted.
Re:Ubuntu on tablets by marssaxman on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @05:59PM (#5247714)
I don't understand your argument. A new platform has to offer something the existing platforms don't have. Web apps cannot be the differentiator for a new phone OS because the big two already have standards-compliant web browsers. The browser is table stakes; of course any new phone OS must offer one, because you can't be taken seriously without it, but the browser in itself is not a reason to use the platform.

Or are you suggesting that new phone OSes ought to add proprietary non-standard browser extensions in place of a native apps API? Given the ugly history of proprietary browser features it is difficult to imagine anyone taking such a strategy seriously.

Re:Ubuntu on tablets by adamsaleh on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @01:56PM (#5246263)
Well why cross-compile to Emscripten, when you can cross-compile directly for arm,e.t.c (thus leveraging diractly unix/desktop heritage)
Re:Ubuntu on tablets by tuneit on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @06:29PM (#5247866)
actually there have been talk about one common api for all .nix that is tizen, sailfish, meego, ubuntu, plasma
Re:Ubuntu on tablets by simonh on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @01:24PM (#5246015)
That's true up to a point, but even Nokia has limited resources and developing, launching and marketing a tablet computer at Nokia's scale is not cheap.

So given that, if they were going to put some eggs in another basket, why would they choose Ubuntu over Android, which has an existing application base and at least some user awareness?

It seems like we're at the same stage right now in the mobile OS world as we were in the personal computer market back in the 80s, with multiple competing platforms such as the Amiga, Atari ST, BBC Micro, Commodore 64, PC, Mac, etc. Each had it's advantages, and each had significant success, but there's actually only room in the market for two or three of them long term.

Re:Ubuntu on tablets by azakai on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @01:38PM (#5246126)
> So given that, if they were going to put some eggs in another basket, why would they choose Ubuntu over Android, which has an existing application base and at least some user awareness?

I agree, Android would be a better second bet. But they don't necessarily need to limit themselves to 2 - look at how many options Samsung is keeping open for example.

Re:Ubuntu on tablets by jussij on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @09:37PM (#5248639)
Except Samsung is drowning in profits, while Nokia is just drowning.
Re:Ubuntu on tablets by wuest on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @01:48PM (#5246209)
> 3. Nokia backing up this project?

I would love for this to happen (heck, my N900 and N9 show that Nokia + Linux = fantastic device) but I fear that as long as Elop is at the reins, this is an impossible dream. This is the same CEO who even went so far as to ditch Qt less than a year ago, remember.

Re:Ubuntu on tablets by mcantelon on Tuesday February 19, 2013 @12:41PM (#5245720)
>Isn't this the best time for Nokia to make Ubuntu powered devices? I think so.

The Nokia CEO's a Microsoft loyalist so this is probably not going to happen.