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Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by mtrimpe on Saturday February 09, 2013 @05:14PM (#5194264)
When talking with a friend of mine about me having dropped out of college because I was too bored, he once said: "If you were that smart you would've just finished it next to all your other stuff."

I was pretty much this kid, or close to it, and to this day that statement is still one of the most valuable, harshest truths to me. So just challenge the kid to make it both work, run the company and finish high-school. If the kid is this smart he can do way better than running some VPS hosting company in the long run.

edit: I'm not from the US, but biscarg's comment sounds like it would be pretty good for the kid.

Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by hkmurakami on Saturday February 09, 2013 @05:40PM (#5194380)
Some private high schools will give assignments that in totality, really do take many hours per day since they require lots of repetition and formula application, rather than say, a small number of very difficult prompts.

In response, here are some "deals" that my friends cut with their teachers:

Friend 1: Instead of doing ~50 easy/medium difficulty math problems per night, he would do 3 difficult ones instead from the section.

Friend 2: He would not have to any homework for AP Physics class as long as he got an A on the previous exam.

AP Bio Teacher: Had an official rule where any student who got a 90% or higher on the previous week's exam wouldn't have to do any of the assignments for the week (though many would do the assignments anyways to learn the material).

These are some things he could look into.

Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by InfiniteLoopx64 on Saturday February 09, 2013 @07:03PM (#5194677)
My teachers (with exceptions) are stubborn and unwilling to make such deals. It's also not only the after school assignments that I'm upset about, but the fact that I spent 8+ hours of my day in school with no ability to get any work done.
Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by mtrimpe on Sunday February 10, 2013 @04:42AM (#5195933)
Have you considered that you might not have the social skills yet to make them willing to make such deals with you?

I was in a very similar position as you and looking back what got me those breaks were the teachers that liked me, that liked what they saw in me and who wanted to support me.

Everything I got, I was granted. Just like in real life.

Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by danielweber on Sunday February 10, 2013 @01:11PM (#5197201)
Lots of schooling is built around making it easier to manage groups of kids. If this guy starts getting exceptions, the teacher is afraid that the next 10 kids in the class will also want exceptions, and pretty soon it's dogs sleeping with cats.
Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by InfiniteLoopx64 on Sunday February 10, 2013 @03:19PM (#5197682)
Yep. That about describes it. All the kids in my school are wildly crazy and immature and thus it's not in the picture.

I may not have the "best" social skills, but I will say many of the teachers do like me.

Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by shawndumas on Sunday February 10, 2013 @04:20PM (#5197959)
worse than that; the very nature of the job of school administration attracts a certain kind person

they want him to conform to a system that was never designed for him

Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by shawndumas on Sunday February 10, 2013 @04:18PM (#5197952)
he convinced me to do what I could to try and convince his parents to let him get his GED and then dropout
Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by Arelius on Saturday February 09, 2013 @05:45PM (#5194408)
> If the kid is this smart he can do way better than running some VPS hosting company in the long run.

What's actually super interesting about the kid's comment is that while clearly written by a clever kid, he specifically never states that he is too smart for this, and that seems intentional.

It seems very much that the kid recognizes that the system is flawed, and not that he is too extraordinary for the system, so in my opinion, trying to appeal to him in the: "If you were that smart you would've just finished it next to all your other stuff." sort of manner will be of no effect.

Now, I don't even know if I think he should stick around through school, I likely would not have, but if that's what you want to argue to him, I'd suggest that the best way to do that is through showing him how non specialized education is helpful all through life, which I argue will be very difficult, because we have an educational system that stresses specialization over a more liberal education, and I think he recognizes that.

Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by InfiniteLoopx64 on Saturday February 09, 2013 @07:05PM (#5194685)
Exactly. I do not feel I am too smart for school, however, as you say, I feel that the system is flawed. And I don't want to waste my time on many things that I know will truly never help me in practical knowledge. However, there is still of course the connections and some vital information that school providers, but I don't think it's worth sitting out all the other useless information that wastes my time.
Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by danielweber on Sunday February 10, 2013 @02:33PM (#5197496)
It's been many years since I've read "The Millionaire Next Door," but one thing about the millionaires is they surprisingly often don't have college degrees, sometimes not even high school.

HOWEVER, just about universally they highly highly value their own kids getting college degrees. It is one of the most important things they believe they can give their kids. So while they skipped parts of the traditional educational system, their experience after 30 years of life has convinced them that their own kids ought to have it.

Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by quasque on Saturday February 09, 2013 @09:04PM (#5195094)
This is a curious assault on general knowledge that you display here - what precisely would you consider to be "useless information", and why?

Schooling at the level you're at now is designed to be well-rounded, and I suspect you would be doing yourself a future disservice if you chose to completely reject it in favour of your current narrow interests.

Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by shawndumas on Sunday February 10, 2013 @04:24PM (#5197973)
the insipid inanity that they pass off as "knowledge" really is not worth his time.

he would be much better served reading broadly; historic fiction, science/nature periodicals, the classics etc

Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by quasque on Sunday February 10, 2013 @08:20PM (#5198764)
As I am unfamiliar with the state of the US education system, could you please explain what exactly are you referring to?
Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by shawndumas on Monday February 11, 2013 @12:42PM (#5202025)
below is an example of what is done and what to do diff. this is about science but you can extrapolate to the other subjects.

teachers like Tyler DeWitt are vastly underrepresented in the school system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVwWN0kjbms&list=FLj3EXpr...

Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by quasque on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @04:32PM (#5209698)
Thanks for the links. The speaker in that video makes an excellent point about science communication which I think applies to all education and not just primary/seconday school. For example, even scientific journals having "commentary" or "news and views" sections alongside the papers is incredibly important to tell the readers why the research may be important (if they don't follow it intimately already).
Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by shawndumas on Tuesday February 12, 2013 @03:56PM (#5209471)
Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by shawndumas on Sunday February 10, 2013 @04:32PM (#5197999)
Flawed doesn't even begin to describe the system, and that's not taking into consideration that the system was never designed for people like him
Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by mtrimpe on Sunday February 10, 2013 @04:33AM (#5195919)
Every system is flawed; the ones after high-school as well.

I'd suggest following hkmurakami's advice and figure out a way to bend the system to your will. It's a much more valuable lesson in the longrun.

Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by recuter on Saturday February 09, 2013 @05:17PM (#5194281)
Maybe there's a point like this to be made about college but I don't understand how 3 more years of high school would benefit him - what's wrong with a GED? It just seems so much more time efficient.
Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by hpvic03 on Saturday February 09, 2013 @05:34PM (#5194361)
I agree. And while a genius/superman may be able to do both, everyone has their limits. It may be smarter to pick one thing and focus completey on it.
Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by MartinCron on Saturday February 09, 2013 @05:46PM (#5194410)
For better or worse, a GED has a stigma as being an inferior option. Just something to be aware of.
Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by mindcrime on Saturday February 09, 2013 @06:00PM (#5194469)
Sure, right up until you finish a college degree or have enough work experience that nobody asks about your HS experience. If he just went to a community college and got an Associate Degree in something, the difference between having a "real" HS diploma and having a GED vanishes in the wash. Transfer from the CC to a regular university and he's on the exact same track as before, except for possibly not going to Princeton or Harvard, and instead being at $STATE_SCHOOL. Big deal.

Don't get me wrong.. for most kids, I'd suggest going ahead and sticking around HS and finishing. But it's not very long after high-school when your high-school "credentials" become totally insignificant.

Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by shawndumas on Sunday February 10, 2013 @04:29PM (#5197987)
I've conducted well over 200 interviews and I will tell you honestly it never would've crossed my mind to pass up on someone who is smart and got things done simply because they had a GED

and just to give that statements some context, I've been in a position to make the initial decision on hiring at three of the last four companies I've worked for

Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by biscarch on Saturday February 09, 2013 @08:12PM (#5194929)
biscarch* ;)

"If you were that smart you would've just finished it next to all your other stuff."

It's not about being that smart, it's about the best use of your time. You could be the smartest person in the world, but doing hundreds of single-variable derivatives isn't going to teach you as much as moving on to multivariate calc (if you're capable of moving on).

School in the US locks you into a specific speed. If you learn more, you're punished with busywork below your current level, if you learn less, you get left behind.

The quote I'd prefer to hear your friend say is "If you were that smart why didn't you test out?" or "If you were that smart why didn't you just finish everything in a couple months?" But these are impossibilities in the current system.

The school system is akin to having a giant pile of rocks.

Which is a better use of your time if you're capable of building a crane:

A) You can either carry them one by one to where they need to go (finish hs)

B) You can build a crane that moves them faster (drop out and pursue more).

[deleted]
Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by mcrittenden on Saturday February 09, 2013 @05:43PM (#5194397)
> I don't remember high school being extremely rigorous

Agreed, but it still requires at least 35 hours a week of sitting in class.

Re:Ask HN: Friend's 15 year old wants to drop out, I've been... by papacuppa on Sunday February 10, 2013 @01:16PM (#5197215)