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Re:Why are we still working this hard? by nine_k on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @03:46PM (#50458443)
Also ambition. We still want more.

The "golden billion" people almost all live in luxury, by the standards of an early industrial society like the early 19th century Europe which Marx described, and daily use a ton of amenities which even the mightiest king could not afford 1000 years ago. But we take it for granted.

I could have taken my savings and downshifted to a comfortable life in a third-world country. But instead I've put them in my wife's business, and keep working, while living in one of the most expensive cities in the Solar system. This is because I want a better education for my children, and success for the business. (The city is also enjoyable when I have the time.)

Then, some amenities are still expensive. Think about medical care, especially larger-scale like cardiac surgery. Well, think about the cost of a Claude subscription if you live otherwise happily for $25 / day in an inexpensive third-world countryside.

We work so much because there's still utility in it, in many cases. We have plenty, but not plenty enough.

Re:Why are we still working this hard? by testing22321 on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @03:56PM (#50458564)
I used to live in a big city and work as a software engineer.

I realized it wasn’t making me happy. Sitting inside everyday is not how I want to spend my life. Now I live in a mountain town of 10,000. I work 10-20 hours a week on writing and books. I snowboard 100 days a season. We took our 6 month old on a trip for a year (wielded got 18 months maternity leave) she works 3 days a week.

I cut our firewood so we have no heating bill, have no phone, no tv. We really enjoy the simple life. We have plenty of time to host dinner gatherings, hang out with our daughter, etc.

The choice is there.

Re:Why are we still working this hard? by skinfaxi on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @04:07PM (#50458673)
What do you do for health insurance? That seems to be the big thing at least when I was not a W-2, and the state marketplaces are not cheap and way worse than insurance from any employer I've had.
Re:Why are we still working this hard? by testing22321 on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @04:12PM (#50458741)
I immigrated to a country where everyone gets it.
Re:Why are we still working this hard? by palata on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @05:08PM (#50459381)
Do you benefit from the fact that the others do work, then? Or would it still work if everybody was living like you do?
Re:Why are we still working this hard? by skinfaxi on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @08:39PM (#50461904)
Do you think the person to whom you replied doesn't pay taxes or something?
Re:Why are we still working this hard? by palata on Thursday November 12, 2026 @05:18AM (#50465292)
I guess it felt to me that the OP was answering the question "why are we still working this hard" by giving an example of how we actually could work less.

Which does not seem to be the case at all. The OP seems closer to someone who would be wealthy if they worked full time (they say that by working 10-20h a week, they still make more than people on minimum wage).

They conclude with "The choice is there". Sure, "the choice is there" when you are wealthy enough.

Re:Why are we still working this hard? by testing22321 on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @08:56PM (#50462047)
I work, earn money and pay taxes. So does my wife. We have a mortgage, and pay property taxes too.

Is it a requirement of society to work maxx?

If a doctor can earn $50k a year working one day a week and a Walmart worker has to work 40 hours a week to earn $50k, does the doctor have some kind of obligation to work and earn more? What if they just want the kind of life $50k a year allows for?

Should the Walmart worker do 80 hour weeks to contribute the same taxes as an engineer working 40 hour weeks?

Surely we all get to choose how much we work.

If I want to live in a 100 year old house and ride my bike with no phone and no tv, and modest lifestyle, it’s absurd I should be forced to work “full time” when I earn as much as I want to live the life I want. That is my choice.

Re:Why are we still working this hard? by palata on Thursday November 12, 2026 @01:51AM (#50463883)
That was a genuine question: you say you don't have to worry about paying health insurance because you immigrated to a country where it's free, right?

My question is: if it's free, it comes from taxes. And if you earn less, you contribute less. Does it pay for your health insurance, or do you benefit from the fact that others work more and contribute more?

Not saying you should be ashamed at all. Just wondering if you would get the same level of health insurance in a world where everybody did the same as you. I guess not? Which is maybe fine, of course.

Re:Why are we still working this hard? by testing22321 on Thursday November 12, 2026 @02:28AM (#50464104)
I pay more taxes than the millions of people on minimum wage.

Ashamed is the opposite of how I feel.

Re:Why are we still working this hard? by palata on Thursday November 12, 2026 @05:11AM (#50465238)
> I pay more taxes than the millions of people on minimum wage.

I assume those people couldn't survive on working 10-20 hours a week, if they are on minimum wage at 100%?

I guess what I am saying is "good for you, but it's not like everybody can do that". You are lucky that you can do that, it's not "just a choice everyone can make".

It would be akin to saying "I had a high-paying job in a rich country for a few years, and then I retired in a poor country where I live like a king", in that... sure, but not everybody can have a high-paying job in a rich country for a few years, so being able to do that requires being privileged in the first place. I think it doesn't hurt to realise it.

Re:Why are we still working this hard? by froh42 on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @04:13PM (#50458744)
I live in a big city and work as a software engineer.

I love the city, the friend group, being into some communities that do not exist in small towns.

If you'd put the outdoorsy small town lifestyle on me, I'd kill myself.

I'm really happy for you it worked out, but what you suggest is not an overall solution. (And just imagine how your town would look like, if we all moved out of the cities ... we'd create new cities).

The fact that cities are big is cause by people wanting to live there, not elsewhere.

Re:Why are we still working this hard? by esseph on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @04:21PM (#50458868)
[delayed]
Re:Why are we still working this hard? by palata on Thursday November 12, 2026 @05:25AM (#50465337)
They said "if we all moved out of the cities". Do you think the whole world could live in the countryside? Historically people moved to the cities because they weren't able to live in the countryside anymore...
Re:Why are we still working this hard? by testing22321 on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @04:22PM (#50458876)
I am also very happy your choice has worked for you and you are happy.

Obviously it’s horses for courses.

That being said, would you take an extra paid week of leave if offered? What about two or three? Would you be happier? What if you had 20 weeks of paid leave? Would you be happier?

I think the very vast majority of people would work less if they could.

Re:Why are we still working this hard? by palata on Thursday November 12, 2026 @05:23AM (#50465316)
> I think the very vast majority of people would work less if they could.

But you also said "the choice is there". So which is it? If you think they can, and you also think they would do it if they could, then why do you think they don't?

Re:Why are we still working this hard? by palata on Thursday November 12, 2026 @05:21AM (#50465302)
> The fact that cities are big is cause by people wanting to live there, not elsewhere.

Actually, people moved to cities to get a job, when it became harder to have one in the country side because of industrialisation.

Re:Why are we still working this hard? by enoint on Thursday November 12, 2026 @09:06AM (#50467313)
But we’ve fixed the life expectancy since then. Nowadays cities actually have higher life expectancy.
Re:Why are we still working this hard? by nine_k on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @04:31PM (#50458988)
Do you have a family? How large? How much do other family members contribute, in income or labor, into the operation of your household?
Re:Why are we still working this hard? by testing22321 on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @05:09PM (#50459394)
Yep, wife and young daughter. Wife works 3 days a week.

They are the reason I choose to work less - to spend time with them doing the things we love.

Re:Why are we still working this hard? by 9rx on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @04:12PM (#50458739)
> This is because I want a better education for my children

The research strongly suggests that the most important factor in giving a child a better education is the degree of parental involvement. Do you think working and focus on business success gives you more attention capacity to be involved with your child's education than the downshifted option would have?

Re:Why are we still working this hard? by nine_k on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @04:29PM (#50458962)
Above some nonzero level of parental involvement, the peer group dominates. I want my kids to be around brighter, nicer kids; many of them gravitate to schools in expensive locations.
Re:Why are we still working this hard? by 9rx on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @04:43PM (#50459116)
The research shows that peers do become significant in the teenage years, but suggests that parental involvement is still most important even then. Prior to that, peer group seems to have little-to-no effect.

So, the good news is that even if you want to give your best in that area, you only have to endure for five years, give or take. Something tells me you won't be packing your bags after that, though. The combination of words gives the impression you're actually more interested in the appearance of giving your child a good education more than giving a good education.

Re:Why are we still working this hard? by Choad_20261104 on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @05:27PM (#50459654)
I was one of the dumbest among the smart kids I hung out with, the bad influence, but we did have fun. peers count for alot, parents count for alot. but what counts the most is the kid him/her self. I say this because there came a moment, and I remember it well, when I knew that I knew how to learn. before that, I didn't not know that.

I knew WHAT I wanted to learn, just not how to learn it, how to nurture and guide myself. it was a big deal and it still is

Re:Why are we still working this hard? by layer8 on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @04:32PM (#50458995)
> Also ambition. We still want more.

That’s not ambition, that’s desire. Ambition is wanting to do more.

Re:Why are we still working this hard? by nine_k on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @04:55PM (#50459226)
Running a business is wanting to do more, in my book. If I just wanted more money to burn on consumption, I'd buy more NVDA instead, or something.
Re:Why are we still working this hard? by layer8 on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @05:00PM (#50459277)
You weren’t talking about running a business, but in investing into one. The question is do you primarily care about what the business is accomplishing in the world, or do you mostly just care about the money you get out of it.
Re:Why are we still working this hard? by nine_k on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @05:30PM (#50459695)
Investing in my wife's business inevitabily comes with also doing quite some work for it :) I'm just not at helm. And it's not primarily money I care about here, but money is the lifeblood of business, you can't avoid earning and spending rather noticeable amounts.