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Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by xyzzy123 on Monday November 09, 2026 @10:40AM (#50427099)
If you think about government and corporations - they're responsible for so many bad things in the world! I guess that's true, but how much of it is them just doing all the stuff?

So I don't know that it's fair? Nearly all the material goods around me and a ton of services were provided by corporations, which are largely composed of regular people glued together at scale by bureacracy.

Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by Computer0 on Monday November 09, 2026 @10:43AM (#50427129)
The material goods around me are crap and only serve to bring me further from being in touch with what it means to be human
Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by mikrotikker on Monday November 09, 2026 @11:28AM (#50427800)
Stop buying Chinese made stuff.
Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by BSDobelix on Monday November 09, 2026 @11:59AM (#50428248)
>Stop buying Chinese made stuff.

Correction:

Stop buy stuff.

Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by hardbass on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @03:11AM (#50437451)
Feel free to live in the jungle naked. Do notify me your identity so you can be banned from medicine and other material goods.
Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by soperj on Monday November 09, 2026 @10:44AM (#50427141)
Everything is actively getting worse for more corporate espionage. I didn't actually say anything about government, mine seems to genuinely care for our welfare.
Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by unrented7977 on Monday November 09, 2026 @11:01AM (#50427383)
There's a growing sentiment in the US that capitalism in general and consumerism in particular are inherently bad and cause only hardship and exploitation for the general public.
Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by verisimi on Monday November 09, 2026 @11:19AM (#50427637)
... whereas the truth is ...?
Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by Gormo on Monday November 09, 2026 @11:53AM (#50428157)
That "capitalism" and "consumerism" are abstract concepts that represent pre-existing patterns of human activity that arise from a priori motivations, and are not things that exist as entities unto themselves exerting an influence on anyone's behavior or situational outcomes.
Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by verisimi on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:13AM (#50437071)
I've no issues with capital or people consuming stuff.

My issue would be with the corporations, which I see as the new estates. Except that they are far larger and far more powerful than what we had two centuries ago. Their perks include: regulatory capture, political access, access to finance. Ie powerful corporations run the infrastructure for capital movement and consumption - in their interests.

Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by shevy-java on Monday November 09, 2026 @11:19AM (#50427639)
Capitalism is not inherently bad as such.

Free market competition makes sense. Lowest prices.

What we see right now in the USA, though, is a mafia. That has nothing to do with capitalism as such. It is a racket, a ponzi scheme. There are many variants of capitalism. Even the chinese adapted their variant to sinomarxistic ideals (to certain extent; I don't think today's main China is purely capitalistic nor purely sinomarxistic as it once used to be).

Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by Arainach on Monday November 09, 2026 @11:38AM (#50427964)
The market abhors competition. The free market, absent government regulation, will always trend towards anticompetitive consolidation because it's far more profitable.
Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by komali2 on Monday November 09, 2026 @11:49AM (#50428111)
Cory Doctorow wrote about this: "Capitalists Hate Capitalism"

> Capitalists hate capitalism. They don’t want to be exposed to the risks entailed by competition, and feel the goad of that insecurity. They want monopolies, or platforms, or monopoly platforms. They want assets, not businesses.

https://locusmag.com/feature/cory-doctorow-capitalists-hate-...

Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by Gormo on Monday November 09, 2026 @12:24PM (#50428574)
Individual participants in the market may abhor competition, but the market itself is made of competition.

Government intervention is the principal mechanism by which powerful participants restrain other partipants' market activity, and insulate themselves from competition.

Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by Arainach on Monday November 09, 2026 @12:34PM (#50428708)
This has never happened in practice. What happens in practice is that one or a small set of participants become big enough to shut others out through all sorts of tactics including locking suppliers and customers into exclusive contracts, buying out competitors, paying for ads and headlines about customers, etc., etc.
Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by Gormo on Monday November 09, 2026 @01:16PM (#50429297)
> This (being made of competition) has never happened in practice.

So there is no theory/practice distinction here, because there is no applicable theory -- it's all just a description of manifest reality. Markets just are ecosystems of people engaging in value-for-value exchange with each other, and competition just is an inherent characteristic of them that's observable in reality.

> What happens in practice is that one or a small set of participants become big enough to shut others out through all sorts of tactics including locking suppliers and customers into exclusive contracts, buying out competitors, paying for ads and headlines about customers, etc., etc.

Negotiating exclusive contracts is a way of securing long-term business from a customer, motivated by a desire to prevent the customer from defecting to a competitor -- naturally, customers don't sign such agreements unless there's something in it for them.

Buying out competitors is only possible if there are competitors to buy out, which means there aren't barriers to entry, and other firms can target your weaknesses, which you're seeking to compensate for by gaining the market position of a firm that's been successful at doing so. If you can't maintain that position, someone else will fill it -- if they couldn't then the competitor you're acquiring couldn't have done it in the first place.

Paying for ads is a method of trying to win customers' business in a competitive environment. If you didn't have competition, you wouldn't need to advertise.

Everything you're listing here are methods by which firms engage in competition with each other. Every single item on your list is a tactic used by firms because they are in a competitive environment.

Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by Arainach on Monday November 09, 2026 @01:48PM (#50429780)
I would suggest reading some history rather than economic fantasy.

It's not "a competitive environment" just because it's legal to found a company if anticompetitive tactics are allowed.

You can start a railroad, but if the big existing railroads that already have lines running to the cities and factories refuse to let you connect to their service, your company has no hope of surviving.

You can start a factory making paperclips, but if the incumbent has billions of dollars in reserves and can afford to sell at a loss or barely above cost you will never be able to grow and thrive.

You can make a lot more money talking to your competitors and agreeing to fix prices or to each operate in regions that happen to not overlap, eliminating competition.

You can tell customers that if they want to buy product X that they want, they have to buy a bundle that includes Y, meaning that any competitors to Y are bound to fail since customers are already buying that version anyway.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. "History of antitrust" will give you any number of real world examples.

Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by BSDobelix on Monday November 09, 2026 @11:55AM (#50428191)
>Capitalism is not inherently bad as such.

Unchecked Capitalism always leads to Mono/Duopolies aka Mafia. The best of both World is maybe called Social-direct-democratic-capitalism.

>What we see right now in the USA, though, is a mafia. That has nothing to do with capitalism as such.

Has everything to do with unchecked Capitalism, go too far and both extremes end in a ~Monopoly, in Socialism/Communism it's mostly the State (China, USSR, Cuba etc.) in Capitalism a massive conglomerate of Enterprises (S.Korea, again "new" China, Russia, USA, India)

Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by mrngld on Monday November 09, 2026 @01:52PM (#50429835)
China didn't adapt it o "sinomarxistic ideals", whatever that is. Deng Xiaoping understood the failure of marxism, in almost all ways, so started ripping the band-aid.

But he also wasn't interested in major political change.

So we've got something that I'm surprised Europeans don't recognize; state-backed champions and heavy government intervention in various markets, and almost total free markets in sectors that the government doesn't really care about. But at no point can any one company or industry even attempt to undermine the central authority, because Deng wanted to get China out of the economic gutter, not lose power.

Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by shevy-java on Monday November 09, 2026 @11:17AM (#50427618)
> Nearly all the material goods around me and a ton of services were provided by corporations

But the issue is not about corporations - or companies - per se.

The issue is how they relate to the general population. You can have good corporations and bad corporations. When billionaires buy legislation then something is wrong. When a corrupt elite invades countries and kills people - that's bad.

Re:Humans will never again create a project like Wikipedia by Gormo on Monday November 09, 2026 @11:57AM (#50428232)
So the problem with corporations is that governments sometimes do bad things that benefit them?

The problem of "billionaires buying legislation" is that billionaires get money from market activity to buy it with, not that it's up for sale by politicians or that the limits on the scope of legislation are insufficient?

When a military force marches into another country, that's the work of a vague "corrupt elite" and not the political officials in charge of the military?