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Re:Every Mac comes with an (undocumented) family member clas... by dingaling on Saturday November 07, 2026 @11:12AM (#50405713)
Largely, I believe, when phones crossed over from being basic communication devices to being smartphones, but retained their 'appliance' nature.

An entire generation thereby grew up with personal computing represented by vendor-controlled handheld appliances, and naturally regarded actual PCs in the same manner.

And their skills to manage a PC atrophied too, leading to a feedback loop.

Re:Every Mac comes with an (undocumented) family member clas... by skinfaxi on Saturday November 07, 2026 @11:18AM (#50405759)
It's even reflected in the language used by younger generations, asking if things are "allowed" or assuming things are illegal by default.
Re:Every Mac comes with an (undocumented) family member clas... by dylan604 on Saturday November 07, 2026 @11:47AM (#50405948)
In some Linux distros like Debian, everything is illegal/prohibited until you explicitly allow it and only comes with the bare minimum of software necessary to make the OS work. Contrast that to other distros like Ubuntu where everything comes preinstalled and is very permissive. These obviously target different audiences. Smart phones are targeting different audiences too. The power users annoyed by the dumb things the device does just means you're not the target audience and are just bonus buyers for their bottom line.
Re:Every Mac comes with an (undocumented) family member clas... by gf000 on Saturday November 07, 2026 @03:57PM (#50407977)
> In some Linux distros like Debian, everything is illegal/prohibited until you explicitly allow it

Bit of a nitpick, but this is certainly not true of their userspace, where an `npm install` can just install a keylogger or read your ssh keys, or do whatever it wants -- except for updating your video card driver.

Re:Every Mac comes with an (undocumented) family member clas... by dylan604 on Saturday November 07, 2026 @04:53PM (#50408387)
I would hope that someone deliberately choosing to run a headless Debian install would be wise enough to not go around running `npm install` willy nilly. In my personal experience, I've never once needed an `npm install` in Debian environment. I've only ever used them in server environments and to be honest thinking about it, that was all pre-npm when javascript was kept where it belonged in your browser and not my server. Someone screwed us all allowing JS on the server, but that's an entirely different conversation.
Re:Every Mac comes with an (undocumented) family member clas... by gf000 on Saturday November 07, 2026 @04:59PM (#50408440)
Well, it's enough to use a trusted app as your own user on non-trusted data. The former just has to have a memory vulnerability, which is not rare given most of it is C.

So yeah, don't be so confident in it working out. Unfortunately gnu/linux desktop is severally lacking in security (and by desktop I mean a headless personal use as well)

Re:Every Mac comes with an (undocumented) family member clas... by Xirdus on Saturday November 07, 2026 @08:04PM (#50409583)
I used to run npm install unsupervised from a script on headless Debian that I deliberately chose dozens of times everyday. Later I moved my CI to Alpine.
Re:Every Mac comes with an (undocumented) family member clas... by hparadiz on Saturday November 07, 2026 @08:24PM (#50409688)
Complete nonsense. You get passwordless root upon install.
Re:Every Mac comes with an (undocumented) family member clas... by direwolf20 on Saturday November 07, 2026 @01:31PM (#50406796)
Side effects of living in an authoritarian panopticon
Re:Every Mac comes with an (undocumented) family member clas... by ryandrake on Saturday November 07, 2026 @01:49PM (#50406933)
I just don't want to have this ongoing relationship with my software vendor. When I buy an Apple computer, I don't want to have a relationship with Apple. I don't want to log in to iCloud. I don't want them deciding what software I can run and what I can't. I don't want them wagging their finger disapprovingly at me when I download and run something not "notarized" by them. I don't want them mediating my use of my own computer! When I buy a Windows PC it's even worse. Again, I don't want to log into a Microsoft account. I don't want them pushing other software on me via in-OS ads. I don't want to send telemetry back to them. I don't want them recording my screen and saving it god knows where for nebulous "features".

When I buy a table saw, I don't expect DeWalt to hang around my workshop telling me what I can and can't cut, watching and logging what wood I use and when I use it, what my finished product looks like, changing the features and buttons on the saw in the middle of the night. Why the fuck do we tolerate this from software??

It's gotten to the point that Linux is the only sensible option, and not all distributions! Some of them are letting telemetry and metrics and A/B testing creep in. And some third part Linux software is just as intrusive and demanding as commercial Windows/Mac software.

Re:Every Mac comes with an (undocumented) family member clas... by mixmastamyk on Saturday November 07, 2026 @06:06PM (#50408912)
Sounds like you’d like our group: https://trustworthy.technology/

There’s an invite link there to the chat group, though I need to update it.

Re:Every Mac comes with an (undocumented) family member clas... by Obscurity4340 on Saturday November 07, 2026 @10:41PM (#50410235)
Great resource!
Re:Every Mac comes with an (undocumented) family member clas... by mightysashiman on Sunday November 08, 2026 @06:32AM (#50412356)
"Army of light" though
Re:Every Mac comes with an (undocumented) family member clas... by jjav on Sunday November 08, 2026 @04:46AM (#50411783)
> I just don't want to have this ongoing relationship with my software vendor.

This is precisely it.

When I buy a screwdriver, I just want to use it when I need it. I don't want to have an account with Craftsman and give them any PII, etc. No, I just want to use the product I purchased.

It is really the same with any tech product. I bought it, I want to use it. I want zero contact with the manufacturer (even if I like them).

Re:Every Mac comes with an (undocumented) family member clas... by jjav on Sunday November 08, 2026 @04:49AM (#50411791)
> It's gotten to the point that Linux is the only sensible option, and not all distributions!

As much as I've loved Linux for over 30 years, even Linux is becoming suboptimal. I'm mostly installing FreeBSD or OpenBSD these days.

Re:Every Mac comes with an (undocumented) family member clas... by ssss11 on Sunday November 08, 2026 @12:51AM (#50410764)
And PC’s became appliance like with updates, accounts, and now ads
Re:Every Mac comes with an (undocumented) family member clas... by alsetmusic on Sunday November 08, 2026 @08:56AM (#50413414)
As much as a sibling comment gets it right, this is wrong:

> And their skills to manage a PC atrophied too, leading to a feedback loop.

They never built those skills. I know that a lot of us cheered the computer revolution, thinking that everyone born after would understand the things that older generations didn't get, but most didn't care and didn't learn.