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Re:Rotman Lens by d4ng on Wednesday July 01, 2026 @06:16PM (#48753870)
If I understand correctly, is the application of this to quickly switch the direction of sending/receiving? Are there any other applications?
Re:Rotman Lens by macnetic on Thursday July 02, 2026 @07:00AM (#48759465)
Not just switching, you can use all of the beams simultaneously.
Re:Rotman Lens by colechristensen on Monday July 06, 2026 @05:51PM (#48810958)
No, this is to concentrate the radio waves into a desired shape. Stronger in this direction, weaker than that.

Think of it very vaguely like a parabolic mirror on a flashlight directing the light vs a naked light bulb putting light out in all directions. (this is a bad metaphor for what's going on but it's the basic idea of the goal)

To change the direction you have to physically move the antenna OR have an active phased array antenna with an electronic component which has a variable phase change to be able to move the beam around while leaving the antenna fixed.

Re:Rotman Lens by Intralexical on Monday July 06, 2026 @07:12PM (#48811698)
It does do directional steering. No active array components or physical movement are needed.

> If the output ports are connected to individual antennas in an antenna array, this allows shaping the beam in different directions by switching which input port the signal is sent to.

From TFA.

Presumably the geometrical shape of the lens is dictated by solving for useful phase shifts for different input points. Otherwise you could just use a bunch of delay lines.

I wonder if anybody's ever designed a 3D version of this. You might get a wider range of inputs, or more precise steering, by shaping the delays on a non-Euclidean (curved) surface (like a sphere or a saddle).

Re:Rotman Lens by colechristensen on Monday July 06, 2026 @07:55PM (#48812029)
>It does do directional steering. No active array components or physical movement are needed.

By... plugging and unplugging antenna elements?

It makes a fixed directional antenna element array which is configurable to a small degree by choosing which antenna elements to connect and their spatial arrangement.

The radiation pattern can only change by physically plugging or moving antenna elements.

Re:Rotman Lens by grahamburger on Monday July 06, 2026 @09:03PM (#48812473)
It can be changed electronically and is commonly used that way in LTE and Wi-Fi implementations of Beamforming.
Re:Rotman Lens by Intralexical on Monday July 06, 2026 @11:12PM (#48813295)
> By... plugging and unplugging antenna elements?

No. The antenna elements are always plugged in the same way. By sampling/introducing the signal at a different physical position on the lens (or multiple positions simultaneously), you create different physical distances and phase shifts for each element, and therefore a different beam direction.

...Apropos of nothing, this reminds me that a long ago, I played on a Minecraft server where one of the boys made a piston display with controlled by a pressure plate array. I was shocked by how he managed to transmit the signal with a simple wire. Maybe it was a similar idea, using the propagation distance...

Re:Rotman Lens by colechristensen on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @03:11AM (#48814580)
>By sampling/introducing the signal at a different physical position on the lens

Which is accomplished with active components (or multiple frontends). The word "active" is carrying a lot of weight in what isn't actually that important of a distinction

Re:Rotman Lens by ErroneousBosh on Monday July 06, 2026 @05:55PM (#48810997)
That's kind of it, yes.

You can aim an aerial by physically rotating it. You've probably done this, gone up on the roof to adjust the aim of your TV aerial or satellite dish. It makes sense, right? A Yagi aerial - a reflector, a driven element, and a bunch of directors - focuses the beam in a kind of aubergine-shaped blob in the direction of the pointy end.

But you can also aim aerials by having two of them, and varying the phase that you send a signal into them. This sounds a bit mental but consider how direction finding equipment like LoJack works - you have a transmitter in an unknown location and you have a cluster of aerials connected to one receiver. By comparing the phase of the incoming signal between two aerials you can work out which one it's nearer to! This trick works well enough if you make two dipoles spaced a half wavelength apart that you can easily homebrew something where by switching in a 180° phase shift at an audio rate, the difference in phase can be heard as a tone.

In this case you've got a bunch of aerials attached to the ports along the bottom and the phase of the signal reaching them depends on how long it's taken to cross the microstrip. If you fire it in at the top in the centre it'll be equal (notice the middle "legs" have kinks in them to keep the path length the same?), if you fire it in at the side then one of the ports at the side will get the signal sooner and its phase will appear advanced compared to the other one - and the beam will bend that way.

Re:Rotman Lens by summa_tech on Monday July 06, 2026 @06:52PM (#48811530)
Imagine a power splitter + phase shifter that produces a correct phase shift for each element in a phased array to produce a directional beam from one radio transceiver.

Now this clever arrangement, instead of having only one radio transceiver port, has multiple. And each of those ports corresponds to a different set of phase shifts, producing a directional beam at a different azimuth angle.

And because this is an entirely passive device, it's linear, and all ports can be active at the same time (principle of superposition essentially). So you can use a single phased antenna array to serve multiple directional beams at the same time.

Re:Rotman Lens by amirhirsch on Monday July 06, 2026 @06:53PM (#48811534)
It creates pancake beams so you would usually use a separate Rx and Tx orthogonal to each-other to do imaging.
Re:Rotman Lens by CamperBob2 on Monday July 06, 2026 @06:54PM (#48811547)
Basically, it lets you steer a beam very precisely in an arbitrary direction, as if you were physically rotating the transmitting antenna.

Usually you'd need to rotate the antenna or else use a large number of controllable phase-shifting elements to send an output beam in the desired direction. But a Rotman lens lets you use a small number of phase shifting elements to merge a small number of source beams (still > 1, though) into a single precisely-steered output beam.

Re:Rotman Lens by Intralexical on Monday July 06, 2026 @07:13PM (#48811705)
If you monitored all the inputs simultaneously instead of switching, you could make a low-tech radio-wavelength camera. Presumably with less SNR per "pixel" than you'd get from monitoring just one input though.
Re:Rotman Lens by grahamburger on Monday July 06, 2026 @09:06PM (#48812492)
It's a way to create constructive interference in an RF signal in a certain direction (the signal gets stronger in one direction and weaker in others without changing the hardware). It's commonly used in LTE and Wi-Fi as a way to increase SNR directionally for clients.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beamforming

Re:Rotman Lens by bt1a on Monday July 06, 2026 @05:11PM (#48810571)
I was expecting some sort of fungal network with measurable compute on initial glance. Then the article image couldn't help but look quite like the outline of an Earthbound entity.
Re:Rotman Lens by mooshx on Monday July 06, 2026 @05:58PM (#48811039)
Looks ripe for a KiCad/Altium footprint.
Re:Rotman Lens by brcmthrowaway on Monday July 06, 2026 @06:29PM (#48811331)
The type of old school black magick engineering Claude could never.
Re:Rotman Lens by amirhirsch on Monday July 06, 2026 @06:52PM (#48811523)
Oh I dunno. I made a mm-wave radar with a Rotman lens using a generative loop between Python, Rhino, and EM simulation. Pretty sure AI could cook that up.
Re:Rotman Lens by brcmthrowaway on Monday July 06, 2026 @07:48PM (#48811985)
How was it generative, generative AI?
Re:Rotman Lens by varjag on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @04:52AM (#48815186)
What did you use for the simulation part?
Re:Rotman Lens by amelius on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @05:56AM (#48815651)
Yes, I'm also interested in this.
Re:Rotman Lens by amirhirsch on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @02:25PM (#48821599)
Custom FDTD for the optimizer loop, CST for final verification.
Re:Rotman Lens by ano-ther on Monday July 06, 2026 @07:08PM (#48811663)
Looks deceptively simple. Is there a good source to learn more about how it works?
Re:Rotman Lens by actionfromafar on Monday July 06, 2026 @07:20PM (#48811768)
Re:Rotman Lens by plasmatorch on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @03:08PM (#48822208)
Used to work in photonics. The star coupler portion is a Rotman lens, the whole thing is different (an AWG). It's used to spectrally separate an input (or in this case, inputs) across different outputs.
Re:Rotman Lens by actionfromafar on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @03:22PM (#48822436)
So the inputs are all the same spectrum and come out shifted by various amounts or something like that?
Re:Rotman Lens by RetroTechie on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @08:48PM (#48826039)
See link "Working with Luceda AWG Designer" on top of the page you linked. It's got a nice explainer.
Re:Rotman Lens by Y_Y on Monday July 06, 2026 @08:24PM (#48812227)
> The principle was first published by Walter Rotman and R. F. Turner in 1963

Astonishing nominative determinism there

Re:Rotman Lens by goodmythical on Monday July 06, 2026 @10:51PM (#48813143)
Tito Beveridge creator of Tito Vodka, Ed Currie creator of the Carolina Reaper and Pepper X, Keith Weed the president of Britain’s Royal Horticultural Society, Usain Bolt one of the quickest people in the world, Thomas Crapper - commonly but incorrectly attributed with the invention of the modern toilet - founder of Crapper & Co plumbing company, meteorologist Sarah Blizzard, LEO Rob Banks, Donna/Mike/Bobbie Singer all singers with no relation.

I myself have a CTO of a plumbing company in my family from Flushing MI, but that's ever so slightly different.

Re:Rotman Lens by ragebol on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @01:55AM (#48814112)
Re:Rotman Lens by viciousvoxel on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @03:31AM (#48814713)
or nominative determinism
Re:Rotman Lens by logdahl on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @04:46AM (#48815151)
I found this one truly shocking!

Amy Lloyd, British neuroscientist who studied amyloid plaques associated with Alzheimer's disease[0]

[0] https://www.dundee.ac.uk/people/amy-lloyd

Re:Rotman Lens by Tade0 on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @06:57AM (#48816065)
I think nominative determinism has it backwards: people are actually nudged into careers which fit their names as whoever is on the receiving end of their services automatically has a more positive sentiment if they notice the name fits.

I experienced this myself as my first name was rare in my generation and normally found in history books or literary classics so I was perceived through that lens.

Re:Rotman Lens by IAmBroom on Wednesday July 08, 2026 @08:10AM (#48830885)
That's what I understand to be the usual interpretation of nominative determinism.

Some studies have shown statistically significant effects from having aptonyms. More than the expected number of dentists named Payne, etc.

Re:Rotman Lens by bbminner on Monday July 06, 2026 @10:29PM (#48813028)
How difficult it is to get a perfect beam in practice? Can one manufacture a flat rotman lense like that to introduce sinc phase shifts - this should yield a well behaved very directed beam? What are the practical challenges in doing so?
Re:Rotman Lens by RossBencina on Monday July 06, 2026 @10:52PM (#48813146)
Suppose this is connected to a multiple-output RF transmitter (amplifier), what are the advantages/applications of shifting the phases of the signals passively with a Rotman Lens versus shifting the phases of the signals prior to feeding them to the transmitter (i.e. in the generator)? is the main purpose to compensate for different antennae geometry without having to change the signal generator? I guess things are very different when you can't commute everything into your SDR algorithms.
Re:Rotman Lens by go_artemis on Monday July 06, 2026 @10:56PM (#48813187)
Rotmans are elegant, but these days you can get full-duplex all digital phased arrays for cheap: https://www.crowdsupply.com/scale-rf/quadrf#
Re:Rotman Lens by totetsu on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @03:19AM (#48814642)
I wonder if you could do this with sea walls and gates and make beamformeable surf breaks.
Re:Rotman Lens by SiempreViernes on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @04:37AM (#48815100)
The precondition is a controlled input, if you can provide that in the context of sea walls I think you have solved a much bigger problem.
Re:Rotman Lens by IAmBroom on Wednesday July 08, 2026 @08:10AM (#48830888)
Control is needed in directionality, which is pretty much solved - few tsunamis originate inland.
Re:Rotman Lens by amelius on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @05:49AM (#48815606)
It would be nice to see an EM simulation of this.

Any open source packages that could do it?

Re:Rotman Lens by Skwid on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @07:02AM (#48816105)
You can do something similar in 3D with Luneberg lenses, as used on the AN/SPG-59[1]. A truly wild piece of engineering, as is the following SCANFAR system if you're into that sort of thing. I can only assume someone in the top brass had a skim of Arthur C Clarke's Superiority and forwarded it straight on to engineering with a big green approved stamp.

1. https://secwww.jhuapl.edu/techdigest/content/techdigest/pdf/...

Re:Rotman Lens by po1nt on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @07:39AM (#48816346)
This is the closest we can get to magical runes.
Re:Rotman Lens by amarant on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @07:58AM (#48816508)
R.F Turner is a pretty nice example of nominative determinism. Parents up and named him "radio frequency dial", so of course he works in antenna technology
Re:Rotman Lens by FiatLuxDave on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @05:03PM (#48823711)
Similar to the plasma physicist R.F. Heeter
Re:Rotman Lens by summarybot on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @08:51AM (#48817025)
Hey if anyone else is wondering what the heck this thing actually does, there's a beautiful visualization made by Lukas Henkel on his LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/lukas-henkel-ovt_simulation-e...
Re:Rotman Lens by summarybot on Tuesday July 07, 2026 @08:53AM (#48817056)
It's like a Tesla Valve for spreading butter evenly