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Re:You are an amazing engineer, but you are a terrible fit f... by btilly on Monday December 03, 2012 @04:39PM (#4868018)
I am replying out of order for reasons that should become obvious.

Why not skimp and save for a few years worth of survival and take a shot at one of these companies so that you have the financial cushion to give the college try and move on if you have to?

I tell you what.

Why don't you get married. Pay for your wife's medical school. Have 2 kids. Discover what full-time high-quality child care costs. Have your wife get injured and have to leave residency. Have her get better, only to get in a bad car accident. Have her recover from that, only to go into another very intensive residency (no money, tons of time).

After a few years of being a primary breadwinner and effectively a single parent under very stressful circumstances, I'll get someone to make a comment like this to you in a public forum, just so you can understand what it feels like.

Does that answer your question?

People have lives. They are not always as simple as they look like they should be on paper. If someone indicates that their life has had complications, the polite thing to do is to take what they chose to share at face value and move on. There is often more to the story than you really want to know.

You have a social circle where founding a startup and eventually making millions is a regular occurrence? Outside of the bay area? Can I be your friend?

Obviously you don't believe me.

Yes, my social circle does include the founders of companies like ZipRecruiter and Campus Explorer. Those were founded in Santa Monica, which is indeed outside of the Bay area.

And no, you can't be my friend. I don't like people who are acting like assholes to me.

Re:You are an amazing engineer, but you are a terrible fit f... by tptacek on Monday December 03, 2012 @04:46PM (#4868049)
I thought his question was annoying too, but I don't think he's being an asshole; he's just being a nerd. We're all nerds sometimes.
Re:You are an amazing engineer, but you are a terrible fit f... by btilly on Monday December 03, 2012 @04:57PM (#4868123)
Maybe in an hour I'll calm down and agree with you. But right now I really wish he had the honesty to have simply called me a liar rather than trying to paper that over with sarcasm. And there is simply no way that his "advice" could not have been something that I didn't know.

According to his bio he's 24. There is a lot he doesn't know. Hopefully he will be a little more careful in the future about stepping into emotional minefields like this.

Re:You are an amazing engineer, but you are a terrible fit f... by mst on Monday December 03, 2012 @05:22PM (#4868267)
You're assuming sarcasm rather than a "whoa, seriously?" response, which given your social circle is I think fairly unusual isn't accusing you of lying so much as asking if he read it correctly.

And he didn't -advise- you, he asked why you -didn't- do that.

Of course, assuming bad faith and then using his age as an argument as to why your knee jerk reaction was ok apparently is also an option - but not up to your usual standard. I think perhaps the 'emotional minefield' part is crucial here, and next time you should step away for that hour before replying at all.

Re:You are an amazing engineer, but you are a terrible fit f... by btilly on Monday December 03, 2012 @06:12PM (#4868506)
You're assuming sarcasm rather than a "whoa, seriously?" response, which given your social circle is I think fairly unusual isn't accusing you of lying so much as asking if he read it correctly.

I certainly did that.

Of course, assuming bad faith and then using his age as an argument as to why your knee jerk reaction was ok apparently is also an option - but not up to your usual standard. I think perhaps the 'emotional minefield' part is crucial here, and next time you should step away for that hour before replying at all.

In this case stepping away for an hour would not have helped. Because with a strong emotional frame in my head, I had no path from there to seeing any other reaction. It was going to take someone else, in this case you, to show me another possible way to frame it. I'll need to take time to digest that fact before I try to figure out how to avoid responding that way in the future.

Thank you for your helpful response. I'm sorry that I had the reaction that I did. These things happen with humans. Some days more easily than others. Some humans more easily than others.

PS: Ironically, knowing a few successful startup founders is one of the most normal things about my social circle.

Re:You are an amazing engineer, but you are a terrible fit f... by tptacek on Monday December 03, 2012 @07:23PM (#4868792)
Chalk it up to message boards and at least be happy he didn't suggest you sell your kids to fund the company. :)

LATE EDIT WAIT WAIT I CALL THAT BUSINESS MODEL FOR YC'S13

Re:You are an amazing engineer, but you are a terrible fit f... by codewright on Monday December 03, 2012 @07:47PM (#4868886)
I'm making baby back ribs on the BBQ next weekend, so I think I'd be a customer of this company.

I look forward to your application to YC regarding this modest proposal with great interest.

Re:You are an amazing engineer, but you are a terrible fit f... by mst on Monday December 03, 2012 @07:52PM (#4868916)
> Thank you for your helpful response.

You're welcome, that was what I was hoping for.

> I'm sorry that I had the reaction that I did.

Reacted emotionally because of care for your family and then did your best to be more logical about it when given a chance to do so? I'm not sorry, and I'd anticipate their not being sorry either.

(a slightly gratuitous additional reframing perhaps, but one I think deserves to be given voice)

Re:You are an amazing engineer, but you are a terrible fit f... by klibertp on Monday December 03, 2012 @06:15PM (#4868525)
> You're assuming sarcasm rather than a "whoa, seriously?" response

There is a difference between "whoa, seriously?" and "whoa, seriously? if that's so, then why aren't you swimming in money?". The former is ok, the latter is generally given to people who tell you that they speak with Elvis or they can travel freely to the future and back.

Re:You are an amazing engineer, but you are a terrible fit f... by btilly on Monday December 03, 2012 @07:19PM (#4868774)
You are correct, and this is one reason why it was difficult for me to see a better frame. Of course once I am aware that a better frame exists, I should give the benefit of the doubt by assuming that one until proven otherwise. (Even if I suspect it is not what was truly going on.)
Re:You are an amazing engineer, but you are a terrible fit f... by klibertp on Monday December 03, 2012 @10:44PM (#4869421)
I can only say I admire your determination here. In this specific case I have no or very little doubt that your suspicion is correct, especially in the light of later edits above. I think that I personally wouldn't be able to reframe the situation and change my way of thinking just because I was shown that it is possible. I suspect I wouldn't even want to, and it's not a noble thing to do, and I know this, but I think I still wouldn't be able to stop. I just wanted to say that I'm really impressed that you were able to overcome these emotions, really, honestly impressed.
Re:You are an amazing engineer, but you are a terrible fit f... by mst on Monday December 03, 2012 @07:49PM (#4868900)
Given the answer to "whoa, seriously?" is "yes" in your case, a good faith answer to a bad faith question is also the most effective smackdown; I find arranging things such to be useful where I have such suspicions :)
Re:You are an amazing engineer, but you are a terrible fit f... by seiji on Monday December 03, 2012 @04:46PM (#4868050)
Remember to breathe. It was clearly a light hearted comment.
Re:You are an amazing engineer, but you are a terrible fit f... by btilly on Monday December 03, 2012 @04:59PM (#4868132)
It was clearly a light hearted comment.

We disagree on what "clearly" means. Because to me it was not clearly a light hearted comment. At best, it was an ill thought out and dismissive one.

Re:You are an amazing engineer, but you are a terrible fit f... by mst on Monday December 03, 2012 @05:16PM (#4868242)
I think you're being a little unfair.

At best, it was somebody who doesn't know what it's like to know that your partner and kid(s) are depending on you to make things work - somebody who doesn't know what it's like to see your disposal income cease to exist and be basically happy about that fact.

At best, it was somebody who doesn't understand that 'choosing between something for yourself and savings' and 'choosing between something for your family and savings' are a very, very different thing.

He's 24. He hit an emotional button. But the button is yours, and you shouldn't expect him to've been able to tell it was there; I wasn't particularly surprised by your response once I'd read it but I really didn't expect you to jump up and down on his head like that either.

He was asking whether you could support your family and, slowly, put away enough money to take a startup shot as well. The answer is apparently 'no'. You could just have said that.