Remember the guy who promised he'd shut down Guantanamo? Or the guy who made up some weapons so he could invade Irak? Or the guy who ordered Northstream to be blown up?

> Genuinely, what makes the US untrustworthy if not Trump?

We invaded Korea, and then Vietnam, and a few hundred other interventions that don't seem to be sanctioned by the international community. All because of a hardon for ideology that doesn't seem to actually reflect the interests of the people who live here.

Most of those were sanctioned by the international community. Look at the participants.

We had the international community on a leash after WWII. This means nothing.

Leash or not, there was international support as a fact.

Great. I'm happy you're willing to recognize our fucking empire for what it is

Oh I get downvoted all the time for telling people about the american vassal states on HN. People, especially those living in these vassal states, seem to take offense to hearing that reality.

Former vassal states, thanks to Trump.

> We invaded Korea

what a terrible bad faith arguemnt

N Korea invaded the south and the UN voted to create a joint force in there to defend it.

Not only is this true, there are about 50 million people in the south who are incredibly grateful for US involvement. And about 26 million people in the north who are, on average, several inches shorter than the southerners due to the end of US involvement.

The people in the north aren't worked to death tho

Erm, yes they are. There are generational camps as well where people live because their parents and grandparents offended the Kim dynasty.

What evidence of this is there? We have plenty of evidence of the working conditions of south korea, however.

We forcibly inserted our forces onto a peninsula to support a state that exterminated hundreds of thousands of people that nominally opposed it. If you want to call this something other than invasion that's your choice. We can all judge what character your faith takes

The seventy odd million people who looked at Trump and everything he is and then voted for him.

The entire congress and senate of the US who sit by while he does this and the supreme court who lets him, entire departments of the US government co-opted by sycophants put in place by Trump.

There is little to trust in the United States at the moment, you look a lot like the Weimar republic.

I guess I internally equate “Trump” and “Trumpism” - who’s to say what the chicken and the egg is with that whole situation.

> The entire congress and senate of the US who sit by while he does this and the supreme court who lets him, entire departments of the US government co-opted by sycophants put in place by Trump.

It is amazing how much people bend the knee to further their own ends. People like Stephen Miller who probably see Trump as a useful idiot, and hold great contempt for him, as long as he can enact his white supremacist agenda.

The leftist circles I run in like to joke that this could’ve just been properly avoided if we hadn’t fumbled reconstruction as a nation.