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Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by nostromo on Monday November 12, 2012 @03:28PM (#4774587)
I wish spam prevention was a bigger part of Apple's culture.

I get spam robocalls on my iPhone and have no way to block them. I have recently started getting unblockable requests to Facetime with strangers on my Mac -- a service I didn't even know I was logged into. I have an Apple email address that is way behind Gmail on spam prevention. And as noted in the article, iOS notification spam is now an issue.

In contrast, Google has anti-spam as a core corporate competency. They know that where there is a profit motive, there will be spam. They truly think like hackers -- "if I were a bad actor, how would I abuse this feature?" Apple needs to pick this up.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by dredmorbius on Monday November 12, 2012 @04:52PM (#4774985)
For Android at least, there are numerous call-blocking apps. I use (though am increasingly frustrated with the privacy policy and feature-creep of) Mr Number, which can block all unknown numbers as well as specific blacklisted numbers.

What I'd REALLY prefer would be a way to categorize contacts into priority groups. Family/VIP, who can reach me 24/7/365. Friends who can call most of the time. Other contacts who can reach me daylight/weekday hours. And the rest who roll straight to voicemail. Add a schedulable exception (allow all calls in the next X hours because I'm expecting one from someone whose number I can't identify in advance).

Combine this with a visual voicemail (Google's product is good, but they already own far, far, far too much of my life) and I'd bitch a lot less about phones.

Increasingly: voice calls are very distracting and annoying. Unless you've got very good reason to call me, don't. I don't even get to "please don't call me" any more, I'll simply hang up (on the rare occasions an unwelcome call gets through).

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by nathan_long on Monday November 12, 2012 @07:24PM (#4775542)
Agreed. There's a lot more to improve about phones' actual telephony.

>> Family/VIP, who can reach me 24/7/365.

Also: a message like "Hi family, I'm asleep/busy, but if you really need me, press 1 to ring me anyway" would be wonderful. They wouldn't worry about calling at a bad time, and you wouldn't get awakened for something trivial.

In general, "what would a good human assistant do?" is a good question for computer systems. A secretary wouldn't wake you unless it was important.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by runT1ME on Monday November 12, 2012 @11:41PM (#4776444)
Take a look at Anveo, someone else said they had a lot of luck with them.

A friend and I actually wrote this exact service, you'd get a number and forward it to whatever, and depending on the who was calling and when (with some rules you would set up), they would either ring through, be prompted that you are busy/sleeping/meeting, or go straight to the cellphone voicemail.

The problem is cost. ALL calls would have to go through this system, (which have a per-minute cost if they aren't over VoIP), so our minimum monthly price for this servce would probably be $15+.

Do you think you would pay that much? Most people loved the demo we showed them, but were hesitant to pay more than a few bucks a month. But, if you think differently I'd love to hear more.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday November 13, 2012 @03:46AM (#4777077)
> Do you think you would pay that much?

I'd rather not, because this should really be an app, not a service. I'd pay for that app though.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by comex on Tuesday November 13, 2012 @01:30AM (#4776745)
iOS 6's Do Not Disturb feature has an option that lets the caller through if they call twice, which can achieve a similar effect, though not only for a specific group.
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by dredmorbius on Wednesday November 14, 2012 @05:25PM (#4785932)
Still wouldn't have helped for the recruiter who redialed me 6 times while I was attempting to read a 400-page PDF manual (incoming calls dump you out of the Adobe PDF reader and you've got to re-find your place in the document), while attempting to recover a melted down server in the colo (hadn't anticipated this, laptop was at the office).

Solution: tell the recruiting firm never, ever, ever to contact me again.

Second solution: take off and nuke Adobe from orbit.

Third solution: ePub for docs, people. It's multi-form-factor fungible, and the readers are vastly, vastly more functional than anything built for PDF.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by comex on Wednesday November 14, 2012 @05:57PM (#4786068)
Fourth solution: use iBooks, it doesn't lose your page. :p
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by dredmorbius on Wednesday November 21, 2012 @12:21AM (#4812954)
Android?
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by comex on Wednesday November 21, 2012 @12:35AM (#4812984)
Oh... I assumed you were using iOS because you replied to my comment about iOS 6.
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by _djo_ on Tuesday November 13, 2012 @07:27AM (#4777586)
Do Not Disturb will be default let calls from your Favourites through first-time, only calls from other numbers will be silenced the first time.
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by runT1ME on Monday November 12, 2012 @07:18PM (#4775521)
I actually wrote this. Problem is, cheapest VoIP termination is ~$8 a month (not to mention server/bandwidth costs).

We had a nice system where you could group contacts and depending on both your location and 'status', certain people would either ring through, be prompted that they may be interrupting and ask if they'd like to proceed, or go straight to the cellphone's voicemail.

People loved the demo we'd show them, but very few loved it enough to pay more than a couple bucks a month for the service.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by whee on Monday November 12, 2012 @10:14PM (#4776175)
FWIW, Anveo is pretty cheap for this sort of thing. You could even do your workflow without much custom work: http://anveo.com/consumer/features.asp?code=personalize_call

(Unaffiliated, just a customer.)

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by runT1ME on Monday November 12, 2012 @11:37PM (#4776438)
How much do you pay per month? Do you use it for your cellphone?
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by whee on Tuesday November 13, 2012 @12:49PM (#4779368)
I use it much like one would use Google Voice; forwarding to my cell phone and a couple of SIP phones with some call flow stuffs. A DID with unlimited incoming is $2/mo. With the e911 charge and outbound minutes I pay ~$3-$4/mo total.
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by saurik on Monday November 12, 2012 @05:04PM (#4775043)
RingerX VIP (for jailbroken iOS devices) isn't quite what you want, but is fairly close. iBlacklist (one of its competitors) may or may not be closer (I don't personally use that one). (They both leave a lot to be desired with respect to the UI for maintaining your categorization.)
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by abraham on Monday November 12, 2012 @06:04PM (#4775263)
Most of that can be done with Google Voice.
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by wpietri on Monday November 12, 2012 @10:14PM (#4776171)
Yeah, Mr Number is definitely the least favorite thing still on my phone. Is there anything better? Just for spam-blocking, I mean.

I'd especially love to see something done in the open-source spirit.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by ricardobeat on Monday November 12, 2012 @08:48PM (#4775847)
iOS 6 has a "Do Not Disturb" mode where you can set which contacts are allowed to call, it's a step in the right direction.

I think all that automation would backfire. What if you forgot that you added someone to the voicemail list and wonder why you are not receiving calls? It's not that hard to just dismiss the call when it happens.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by easytiger on Tuesday November 13, 2012 @07:29AM (#4777594)
4.1 has built in call blocking, including the ability to turn it on and off at certain times of day etc.
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by chimeracoder on Monday November 12, 2012 @05:39PM (#4775179)
Tasker can do most of what you want, and it's fairly straightforward to set up, since it's a very common use of the application.
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by mtgx on Monday November 12, 2012 @08:22PM (#4775756)
I think call blocking like that was even introduced in Android quite a while back, was it not?
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by drivebyacct2 on Monday November 12, 2012 @10:53PM (#4776314)
Yeah you just rattled off the features of Google Voice (plus a few other services that do the same things).

It is indeed quite nice. No jailbreaking, managed in the same place as your contacts, texts, etc. Visible online, all the other benefits of Google Voice which I won't extol in detail.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by semi on Tuesday November 13, 2012 @10:00PM (#4781813)
The caveat there is you also have the drawbacks of google voice, most notably that MMS messages get silently dropped so neither you nor the sender know that you never received them. There are also the privacy implications of going through google, if you care about such things.
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by spartango on Monday November 12, 2012 @03:51PM (#4774713)
I wonder if internally, Google has recognized a business value-prop for fighting spam:

One might argue that by combating spam and noisy advertising, Google makes its own advertising less likely to get ignored (lumped in with the spam), and thus higher value.

Obviously this is a simplistic perspective, but perhaps there's some version of it that makes Google more incentivized to fight spam than Apple might be. Apple is incentivized by a "what makes for the best user experience" which has a more nebulous set of criteria.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by ChuckMcM on Monday November 12, 2012 @04:11PM (#4774811)
Actually gmail was competing with HotMail/AOLMail and the biggest single thing that would get people to switch was 'better spam control.'

All you need to do is to tell a bunch of really smart engineers, "Here is this hugely important problem to solve, you probably aren't smart enough to solve it but we'll listen to what you have to say." And you get every engineer spending their 20% time burning first through the 'easy' fixes which don't actually work and then on to more 'interesting' fixes that kinda do, and finally some real puzzle masters doing things you would not expect but actually nail a lot of spam. And after you've done that then you have a number of people who really get a kick out of this sort of intellectual battle of wits, and you pull them together and make them the 'spam team'. Voila' achievement unlocked.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by jusben1369 on Monday November 12, 2012 @04:32PM (#4774907)
I still remember being blown away when I switched. I'd given up on SPAM. My wife still uses Yahoo and sometimes I'll go into her email to help with something and be shocked by how much she gets. Spam control is also the reason my two daughters have Gmail accounts so Google is capturing the next generation. (On a random side note my kids were actually disappointed when Buzz went away. They were all using it as their first SN experience as they were too young to be allowed access to anything else)
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by wickeand000 on Monday November 12, 2012 @04:38PM (#4774931)
I was thinking about this just yesterday. I think Google's spam blocking accuracy is just a reflection of their advertising acuity. The better their advertising becomes, the better they can fight spam because they know what you want, and by extension what you don't. Furthermore, any advances in spam blocking technology are also advances in advertising technology.
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by JeremyMorgan on Monday November 12, 2012 @05:44PM (#4775190)
Yep. When I hear people complain about spam I usually think "wow, people still get that?"

I've been on gmail since 2004 and even direct my @domain mail there.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by biturd on Tuesday November 13, 2012 @03:01AM (#4776954)
Here's how I block numbers on an iPhone, regardless of OS version.

First, you can do so in your AT&T account. I've never tried this but number blocking showed up as a feature a few months ago. I would bet they charge for it, restart your contract, and use it as an excuse to disable any grandfathered unlimited accounts.

On your phone create a new contact called "z_telemarketers of shame". Any time you get a call from a telemarketer, robocall, etc., add that number to that contact. I use the "other" label. And feel free to create more granularity such as robocallers, telemarketers, spam, and so on.

I then set the option for that contact to silent at all times by turning the vibrate and ringer, settings both to none.

In iOS 6 you can take it a bit further by creating a group in your Contacts. You can't create groups on the phone so you will have to do this on your computer. You can then add these callers to this group and configure them as part of your "Do Not Disturb" settings. I don't do this as I prefer to use the feature as intended.

They do still call, and you will still see them light up your phone, but if you aren't paying attention, you won't notice.

Aside from within your AT&T account, at this time, I don't know any way to block before they get to your phone. ( Unless you jailbreak ) If they have a tendency to leave voicemails it can be a bummer.

What I have noticed after doing this is you can get them to stop. The trick seems to be to never answer, let it ring all the way through, don't "clip" the call, shooting them to voicemail right away. Don't give them any indication there will ever be someone to answer the call. Revert your voicemail message to the default so you aren't speaking.

I've gone from several a day down to one every few months with this technique. It took about six months to work. I have about 100 numbers in various callers that start with "z_", which is a convention I made up to push the name to the bottom of the list and keep it mostly out of sight.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday November 13, 2012 @03:49AM (#4777088)
> The trick seems to be to never answer, let it ring all the way through, don't "clip" the call, shooting them to voicemail right away.

There's a trick that works on all of the phones I've checked so far; instead of answering or rejecting the call, push the volume button - it will let the call ring through, but it'll silence the ringtone and stop vibrations. I find it to be one of the most useful (and frequently used) features of my phone.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by willvarfar on Tuesday November 13, 2012 @03:44AM (#4777076)
does this have interesting side effects on the "social" apps that want to import your contacts?

Any fun stories to be found there?

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by saurik on Monday November 12, 2012 @05:02PM (#4775027)
I imagine that in a more perfect world, rather than competing with each other to control a vertically integrated solution, the people best at building hardware would instead cooperate with with the people best at building cloud services (and vice versa). I really miss believing that the world we really live in could ever actually work that way. :(
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by cageface on Monday November 12, 2012 @07:42PM (#4775620)
Unfortunately for Apple it seems to be easier for Google to catch up in OS and hardware design than it does for Apple to catch up in services.
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by fierarul on Monday November 12, 2012 @05:07PM (#4775053)
Yep, Apple imagines people are just as perfect as their own devices.

On the iPhone I had to make a custom app (https://bitbucket.org/emilianbold/noblocked/wiki ) just to block calls from hidden numbers.

I guess the current iOS 6 with "Do Not Disturb" might help with that. It's only been 2 years(!) since I wrote my app so I should have waited :-| Oh, wait, iOS 6 doesn't even run on the iPhone 3G this was intended for.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by iamdave on Monday November 12, 2012 @05:12PM (#4775069)
Yep, Apple imagines people are just as perfect as their own devices.

Peter principle of consumer electronics?

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by msluyter on Monday November 12, 2012 @04:43PM (#4774959)
I get spam robocalls on my iPhone and have no way to block them.

+1

Indeed. Somehow I've ended up on a number of phone spammer databases, such that I go through periods of getting 5+ calls per day. (Yes, of course I'm on the national do-not-call list and it's illegal to contact cell phones this way.) On Verizon you can block certain numbers (including "unkown"), though I believe it costs an additional 5$ a month. For the last 5 years or so I've been in the habit of not answering any call from a number not on my contact list, but I'd love a good (cheap) way to block spam calls. (And there aren't any good apps for this... I'm guessing Apple doesn't provide an API to actual phone functionality?)

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by mikeash on Monday November 12, 2012 @05:07PM (#4775051)
If they have consistent caller ID (big if, I know, but it happens, and it still works if they use several numbers, as long as they're not totally random) then you can "block" them simply by putting them into a contact that has a silent ring tone and a vibration pattern of "None". They'll still show up on the screen when they call (and potentially interrupt you if you happened to be using something on the phone) but it's way less annoying.

Just thought I'd mention it in case you didn't know about that strategy and it's helpful for you.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by rdl on Monday November 12, 2012 @06:46PM (#4775418)
It's annoying -- the best thing I've found is to use something like Google Voice (or run your own, build it with plivo or twilio), run calls through that, and set your default ringtone to silent/no vibrate, while setting a real ringtone and vibration for calls from the gateway. Unfortunately this means not getting caller-ID for callers.
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by MrMember on Monday November 12, 2012 @06:19PM (#4775332)
On Verizon you can block up to five numbers for free. For an extra $5 a month you can block up to twenty numbers and get a bit finer control.
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by T-Winsnes on Monday November 12, 2012 @04:06PM (#4774790)
In all honesty, I get just as many push notification spam message on my android phone. It's an instant uninstall trigger for me. I see it more of a push notification problem rather than an apple/ios problem. It reminds me of how popups were really useful when they first came out, until they started being used as a marketing tool.
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by swohns on Monday November 12, 2012 @04:56PM (#4775001)
I 100% second this sentiment. I think if users start doing this more often, and reflect this in the reviews in the app store (or if the app store could have an "% of app downloads deleted" or some other metric showing dissatisfied user behavior) that would similarly solve the problem.
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by krickle on Monday November 12, 2012 @09:22PM (#4775980)
I gave a one-star review to an app just for spamming me with "like us on Facebook" requests in the app. But the number of reviews it had was well into the hundreds by the time I got to it, so my effect was miniscule. I agree with you completely, but as long as we are dreaming of an ideal world we may as well assume all apps behave in the first place :/
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by swohns on Friday November 16, 2012 @12:40PM (#4794852)
Just saw a pitch in NYC where they said that less than 3% of their users disable push notification, so they reasoned that this means push is the notification of choice. We spoke afterwards, and it seems like outright deletes were low as well (no number here), so it seems like this sort of abuse is not punished (like I think it should be) by users. Unless we get better feedback mechanisms, this sort of abuse will continue.
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by danielweber on Monday November 12, 2012 @04:30PM (#4774896)
Remember when Netscape pushed out its browser with a pop-up blocker? And when you first launched it you got a pop-up ad because their parent (I think it was AOL at the time) demanded to be both their homepage as well as have an exception from the pop-up blocker?

I'm coming around to the idea that there is no such thing as free (gratis) software.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by bad_user on Monday November 12, 2012 @07:34PM (#4775582)
Part of Apple's culture?

How about allowing apps that block calls in the app store from third-parties?

A year and a half ago I passed on buying a new iPhone, even though I owned a 3GS and out of frustration I've gone out of my way to buy a Galaxy S. The Android Marketplace (as it was called back then) had several apps for blocking calls, some of them broken on my Galaxy S, but I could find one that worked and solved my problem.

So you know, I'm sure that one day Apple will wake up and provide the very best experience for blocking phone calls and SMS messages. But that's something I've been doing for at least 1 year and a half already, which goes to show just how fucked up is Apple's gatekeeper culture. "So this expensive gadget doesn't solve your real problems, but look how user-friendly it is".

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by maxjg on Tuesday November 13, 2012 @02:19AM (#4776860)
As frustrating as it may be, an app that has that type of low-level access would probably be just as abused (if not more so) as push notifications. I can't blame Apple for not wanting to be blamed for the inevitable app that phones home your call log.
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by brokentone on Monday November 12, 2012 @04:53PM (#4774992)
While I agree with your premise, I don't think it has bearing on this discussion. Whereas unwanted calls, texts, etc are a pervasive problem across all telephony and particularly cellular devices--one that the FTC has taken lead on dealing with, they do not particularly affect and are not preventable by any hardware manufacturer.
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by georgemcbay on Monday November 12, 2012 @05:03PM (#4775032)
With my Android phone tied to Google Voice I can block specific numbers and Google blocks a bunch of them for me out of the gate:

http://support.google.com/voice/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answ...

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by brokentone on Monday November 12, 2012 @05:29PM (#4775143)
Can you use an Android phone without a Google Voice number? If not then this also exists on iPhones, through the Google Voice app, just possibly tighter integration. Google Voice != iPhone; Google Voice ~= ATT
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by georgemcbay on Monday November 12, 2012 @08:29PM (#4775788)
Different carriers have different support for Google Voice. Sprint has native Google Voice integration where your GV number is your carrier number.

On other carriers the integration isn't as tight, but the experience is still superior to the iPhone Google Voice experience in that Google Voice on Android integrates with the standard phone dialer so you just make outgoing calls like you normally would using the standard dialer (or any other app which invokes the standard dialer) and they go through Google Voice.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by lukeschlather on Monday November 12, 2012 @11:22PM (#4776399)
I'd agree that the hardware manufacturers aren't necessarily to blame, someone should be championing a real spam roundup API that lets you easily click a button when you get a text or phone call and report the sender as spam to the FTC. The FTC is the logical place to start that, but I don't see why Apple or Verizon or anyone couldn't get the ball rolling.
Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by microtherion on Monday November 12, 2012 @05:29PM (#4775141)
I get SMS spam on Google Voice somewhat regularly, and occasionally also voice mail spam.

As for Google's concern with "bad actors", any search with "ebook" or "download" would tend to demonstrate that as long as they get their vig, Google is quite flexible on what constitutes a "bad actor".

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by drivebyacct2 on Monday November 12, 2012 @06:00PM (#4775247)
I was shocked to get my first spam text in 3 years over the weekend. I was pretty surprised as my number is in plaintext on my blog, Facebook and is found with my name in Google searches. On the other hand, not a single human being other than my mother know my real mobile number and I get a spam text once a month.

That and a quick look at my Gmail Inbox/Spam-folder indicates that they're still winning the fight.

Re:Rampant Abuse of Push Notifications Is Ruining Them For A... by jlturner on Monday November 12, 2012 @10:42PM (#4776276)
Maybe Apple just needs to screen push notifications sent by apps better? Or maybe just a way for users to report spam push notifications to Apple?