Elon is a social dumbass with the emotional maturity of an edgy 14 year old boy, but calling him a fraud I'd say is false and unproductive.

It's only unproductive if assume their goal is honest dialogue, which it is not. Their goal is to tear down a political enemy. Attacks are generally productive, as those who've watched general internet sentiment regarding Elon swing from admiration to frothing, mindless hatred can attest. The truth is entirely beside the point.

This is true of the same crowd on any topic, btw.

He is absolutely a fraud. He has been lying about many things for more than a decade to boost his stock. He has more in common with Trevor Milton than anyone else.

An atheist might call Franklin Graham or Jerry Falwell a fraud, but the people who fill the stadiums and pews keep coming back, year after year, decade after decade, generation after generation. They are obviously getting something positive out of the experience.

Same with Musk and the stock market. At some point, victim-blaming may be the only rational explanation left. His followers are rubes falling for a fraud, yes, but it can hardly be considered involuntary or exploitative at this point. The rubes have become rich simply by sticking together under Musk's benevolent gaze, dominating financial discourse in the broader market. It will continue to work for them, right up until it doesn't.

He's been lying through his teeth for the better part of two decades, "fraud" is true and productive.

> Elon is a social dumbass with the emotional maturity of an edgy 14 year old boy, but calling him a fraud I'd say is false and unproductive.

Given the massive string of lies he spun about "full self driving" over the last decade or more, I don't think so.

Even before his recent political turn when he got widely vilified, I didn't trust him because of his record.

Indeed, he always seems like an obnoxious media attention whore to me long before he got into politics.

I tend to have a negative view of celebrities who did cameos for the Simpsons far past its peak lol

Obnoxious, egocentric, very low EQ, and with almost no moral values, absolutely. Fraud? Not sure. He did make a lot of outlandish predictions, but on the other hand, Tesla revolutionized EVs (forcing everyone to follow suit), and SpaceX revolutionized space tech. He can't take credit for the technical achievements in either, but he did have the tenacity to push both through. Can't say many other people would have done that.

It sort of proves his point that he was trying to make the number of HN comments who are diminishing his (and Elon, I’ll also wrap Steve Jobs) accomplishments and contributions. The fact that so many so called “intellectuals” on HN can’t admit and even see what Elon has done with Tesla and SpaceX is just bat shit crazy to me. SpaceX made space travel and commerce possible. It’s the next big industrial resolution but limitless and unconstrained by resources.

I try to live my life as stoic as possible and simply. I don’t mean simply in terms of luxury lifestyle, or wealth. I mean mindset, common man approach simple. There is great power in it. That’s why the hardest working, smelly, and sweaty people are some of the happiest. Yet, the most intellectual people contemplating every single decision and living a life of pessimism and group think are perpetually miserable.