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Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by mikestorrent on Monday February 23, 2026 @04:55PM (#47129525)
> The American Revolution was rare in that it didn't need to happen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proclamation_of_Rebellion

Interestingly y'all Americans pay much more tax now than you did to England back in the day. Turns out King George was right, and it was just about changing who the tax was paid to.

Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by pear01 on Monday February 23, 2026 @05:58PM (#47130241)
It's also rare to just "discover" an entire continent that is basically free for the taking since Europeans annihilated native populations through disease and technological superiority.

Much of what makes America unique is tied to this essentially once in a generation event that will never happen again on this planet, a contingent confluence of Earth's parallel geographic and biological evolution... it's fairly easy to rebel or become a superpower when other powers have to contend with peer conflicts right on their borders. A break with England was inevitable why take orders from people an ocean away in the age of sail?

Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by BLKNSLVR on Monday February 23, 2026 @06:46PM (#47130741)
That's one of the core plot points in The Mars Trilogy - Why take orders from people on another planet in the age of sub-light-speed space travel?
Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by ABCLAW on Monday February 23, 2026 @07:01PM (#47130878)
It's worse than that; within a few generations our linguistic and biological systems will begin to diverge under conditions with little cross-pollination and different selective pressures. We will become aliens in the sci-fi sense very rapidly if we attempt to create a foundation-like diaspora of settlements.
Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by throwaway85825 on Monday February 23, 2026 @08:10PM (#47131517)
This sounds like lysenkoism.
Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by ABCLAW on Tuesday February 24, 2026 @11:24AM (#47139017)
I think the skepticism warrants more work than that. Darwin's finches are an entry-level concept to learn when learning about biochemistry and genetics. Separate planets would act to separate groups into distinct genetic populations which would then have different selection pressures put upon them. Even without selection pressure, genetic drift in both populations would result in differences compounding over time.

Humans aren't the endpoint of evolution. Something will come after us, and if we're spread out on a ton of planets, there would need to be explicit counteracting forces (genetic modification, tremendous volumes of interstellar human travel, etc.) to make sure whatever comes after us is uniform among our interstellar backyard.

Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by throwaway85825 on Tuesday February 24, 2026 @07:31PM (#47145660)
Most genetic drift happens during 'bottleneck' periods where >80% of the population dies due to selective pressure.
Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by ABCLAW on Friday February 27, 2026 @03:54PM (#47185461)
No, most genetic drift that ends up being reflected in wildtype populations happens during those periods, because small errors taking up a sizable percentile of the allelic distribution is easier when there are less alleles.

When it comes to neutral mutations, we can literally see constant variance creation in plenty of non-coding areas of DNA over time.

Drift occurs at a fairly consistent rate that reflects the intrinsic error rate of the particular replication machinery that a given organism uses. You can measure the statistical error rate of different ribosomal complexes.

Different planets are going to have different selection pressures. They'll have different conflicts. Different crises. Different cultures. Different reproductive preferences. Imagining that these populations will converge on the same wildtype by sheer chance is lunacy.

Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by BLKNSLVR on Tuesday February 24, 2026 @07:01PM (#47145360)
That was explored in Stephenson's Seveneves
Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by UltraSane on Monday February 23, 2026 @05:14PM (#47129763)
Back then most taxes went to Britain.
Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by simonjgreen on Monday February 23, 2026 @05:35PM (#47129966)
Now they go to Bezos

Where there’s an opportunity to be the 1%, folks will find a way to be the 1%

Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by mikestorrent on Tuesday February 24, 2026 @07:25PM (#47145592)
What's the difference? Render unto Caesar, right?
Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by nathan_compton on Monday February 23, 2026 @05:13PM (#47129753)
Not really a secret. The slogan was "No taxation without representation" not "no taxation."

The degree to which legislation in the US is bought by big companies and rarely reflects democratic desires we may be in another "no taxation without representation" era.

Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by autoexec on Monday February 23, 2026 @06:19PM (#47130468)
Even if the needs of the American people weren't being ignored over the wishes of corporations and the ultra-wealthy in terms of numbers alone we have less representation than ever before because the number of people who are supposed to represent us hasn't kept up with the growing population.
Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by throwaway85825 on Monday February 23, 2026 @08:13PM (#47131548)
America ended in 1861 when the era of political bargains transitioned to the era of the government and the subjects.
Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by fuzzfactor on Monday February 23, 2026 @10:29PM (#47132500)
with 20/20 hindsight it would have been a whole lot better to throw a Constitutional Convention rather than have a civil war.

It had already intentionally been forgotten how well that worked the first time.

Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by throwaway85825 on Tuesday February 24, 2026 @05:34AM (#47135366)
But without a war you'd be expected to preserve the republic and then how could you concentrate power for yourself.
Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by nathan_compton on Tuesday February 24, 2026 @02:36PM (#47141667)
Throw a constitutional conventions so that the slave owners could get their votes in (not the slaves, of course, though the owners should get to vote FOR them).

I understand that the civil war was about a lot of things, but the precipitating issue was slavery. Slavers should be obliterated by war if they aren't willing to give up their slaves unconditionally.

Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by fuzzfactor on Tuesday February 24, 2026 @07:06PM (#47145413)
I know what you mean but there were so many other possible outcomes that would have resulted in banishment of slavery from North America just as well.

If the southern agricultural states didn't want to be with the free states in the Union any more anyway, it might have been the only opportunity to withdraw without a war.

Individually, without a confederacy, which instead quickly amounted to a large vengeful adversary where there didn't have to be.

It would have been a tough decision for each state to make, under non-emergency conditions, whether or not they wanted to remain with the country that possessed Wall Street or not.

After all it was Wall Street companies who were often financing the plantations to begin with, before stock traders escalated to funding the slave trade once its human cargo became more lucrative than most.

As it turned out, besides all the death & destruction suffered by all states, Washington itself went into such deep debt to Wall Street in order to fully vanquish the Confederate States, that it set the stage for untenable "permanent" debt where the lenders never got paid back real well for so many decades.

Wall Street has possessed Washington ever since.

Otherwise there would never have been a FED as we know it.

Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by throwaway85825 on Tuesday February 24, 2026 @07:23PM (#47145583)
Slavery destroyed the roman republic just like it destroyed the American republic. Slavery and republican government are fundamentally incompatible because it devalues the labor and vote of the citizen. Instead of ending slavery the civil war simply made everyone a slave to the government. No longer did the government need to compromise, they could simply do whatever they wished by force.

Today millions of new wage slaves flood into the country to further devalue the citizens labor and vote.

Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by fuzzfactor on Tuesday February 24, 2026 @08:46PM (#47146265)
Good observation.

Think about how it was in a state like North Carolina in the 1850's where they were building textile mills which could add great value to the cotton before it was shipped.

This was enough of a threat to Northern manufacturing without their factories having to compete with unpaid labor. They were not happy campers, they had always been making way more money per ton of cotton in the well-established Northern textile mills than the plantations had ever been. And banking it just in case.

In the factory it would be a lot higher-skilled labor than down on the farm, it was still unpaid but never without cost. A dollar would go a long way back then but everything was still relative. Imagine that $10000 was the annual cost of having the labor in a factory without any wages. Accommodations, family support, infrastructure and things like that are what makes this total.

1859 rolls around and the guy in the green visor adds it up and shakes his head, "sheesh it's $11000 this year, when is it going to end?"

War comes & goes eventually, slaves are freed like they should/could have been the whole time, the dust settles and after a year of actually paying wages for the first time to laborers, the guy in the green visor about drops out of his seat because his total labor cost is now $15000. All he can say is "when is it going to end?" Where have we heard that before?

Same thing with the guy in the bank in New York whose employer had been raking it in from all their investments in Southern companies. It just wasn't the same and never was going to be that way again.

At least not exactly.

Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by throwaway85825 on Wednesday February 25, 2026 @06:17AM (#47150088)
I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by fuzzfactor on Wednesday February 25, 2026 @03:35PM (#47157487)
It is convoluted but very few people recognize this as well as you do, regardless of how obvious it is:

>war simply made everyone a slave

The same thing in my message, from almost the reverse point of view, how the way some factory-working slaves were turned into employees by the same war in the 19th century.

What's the difference anyway?

The difference between wage slave and fully-owned has been based mainly on freedom-of-movement and payment for labor, which have always been big enough to destroy a republic.

But not big enough for any difference in tasks or financial considerations to be the major thing for something like a government or corporation.

In some ways not much more modern than the Romans.

For the elites, they have always benefited most from a majority of subjects whose wages, if wages were involved, were not that much more significant than zero when it comes to the bottom line.

Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by nathan_compton on Wednesday February 25, 2026 @12:15PM (#47154416)
> "Instead of ending slavery the civil war simply made everyone a slave to the government."

Look, I hate the elites as much as anyone and bemoan their outsized power over regular citizens, but to compare literal chattel slavery to the post-civil war U.S. is wild. Actual, real life, slavery was a deeply integrated part of their culture. Our democracy has a ton of problems, to be sure, but I find it very hard to blame that on the civil war.

Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by _DeadFred_ on Monday February 23, 2026 @07:45PM (#47131308)
We need to change it to 'no representation without taxation' and ban lobbyists for any industry/company/interest that doesn't pay an equal percentage of their income as the average 'taxed on labor' American.
Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by gosub100 on Monday February 23, 2026 @08:17PM (#47131585)
No, lobbying should be banned even if they pay tax. The only way corporations should have access to representation is by having their role formally defined by an amendment to the Constitution. As in, this government is formed by citizens who have these rights, and corporations that have these rights. Make it official and open, not the subversive manipulation where we act like they aren't there.
Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by mikestorrent on Tuesday February 24, 2026 @07:25PM (#47145594)
Do you feel represented?
Re:Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras by fuzzfactor on Monday February 23, 2026 @10:32PM (#47132524)
The US also got its own stock market.