No.

https://bsky.app/profile/bellingcat.com/post/3md6vlu7hb22t

This doesn't contradict what I said, because "moments before" is like 2 seconds. It seems plausible to me that the agent reacted to a gun being pulled out of pants and panic shot within 2 seconds. His gun was not already drawn, so that's a plausible lag time. If we assume that ICE did not execute a guy for literally no reason whatsoever, that seems to me the most likely explanation for why he drew and fired.

My dude, they were already beating him for no reason whatsoever. When someone showed me this video the first time, I thought the outrage was that they were beating a guy who wasn’t resisting for no reason whatsoever, which is true, but then they also killed him, again for no reason. They were already violent criminals before they murdered him. If he had been drawing it would have been justifiable self defense and ICE would still have been entirely in the wrong. Though he didn’t.

How does the victim you supposedly saw pull out a gun, do that when he's pinned to the ground with a agent bashing his head repeatedly with an implement?

When you're in a high stress physical altercation with obscured vision, and you see a gun in your opponent's pants, and then a hand on that gun, and then the gun being pulled out of the pants by that hand, all happening quickly in succession, you may believe in that split second that you are in a mortal situation. These are not well trained soldiers here.

I'm not defending them, just guessing at the explanation. I'm operating from the assumption that the ICE agent did not randomly with absolutely no cause decide to execute a guy; probably something made him believe in that moment that he should shoot. You can see from the other, closer video that he very suddenly draws his weapon, as if in reaction to something.

I've yet to hear how someone with their hands restrained and forced on the ground managed to get their hands on their gun. Can you please educate me?

Please respond to the strongest interpretation of posts. You know what I'm saying, and you know you're arguing with rhetoric formed to ignore what I'm saying. What is the point of this? Are you saying that it's not possible for an agent in a scuffle to believe, for a moment, that the man on the ground got his arm free from other agents whom he cannot fully see?

I understand you are angry at the footage, and you want to believe that the ICE agent is ontologically evil, and he executed a guy for no reason at all out of the blue, but it's probably more likely that he panicked at something in the moment. That doesn't make it acceptable, but we should try to understand the truth of events even if we are mad.

Why do you think it’s so important to get in this guy’s head, and to give him this graceful excuse of “maybe he just panicked?”

Obviously someone panicked. We can clearly see they did not line them up and actually shoot them with a firing squad.

But what is the point of this thought exercise? Where does it lead? To more “training” for the agents?

The whole thing is illegitimate and immoral. There is no need to engage with what was going on in the guy’s head. We are way, way too far past that point.

> Why do you think it’s so important to get in this guy’s head, and to give him this graceful excuse of “maybe he just panicked?”

It's not an excuse, it's an explanation. By all means throw the book at him for murder or whatever. I think it's important because understanding why things happen is important to stop them from happening. If you just stop at "they're evil murderers" then your options for fixing that are very limited.

> But what is the point of this thought exercise? Where does it lead? To more “training” for the agents?

Yes, at the very least.

The lesson is that when everyone is armed, people get shot. But 2A is more important than that here, so there are no more lessons to learn.

So far, it appears that the killer will not be investigated, much less prosecuted. This is how you start civil wars.

I'm responding to your earlier post, claiming that the victim indeed did put his hands on his gun. I ask you again, provide that evidence that you claim to have seen in the video.

The strongest interpretation of your posts is that you know exactly what you're doing, because you've done it multiple [1] times [2] now [3].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46559763

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46536148

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46515813

Please see my bio. I support ICE in principal, though not in current practice. This isn't a secret or shameful to me. If we can't have a dialogue about how to deport illegal immigrants safely, and how to get from here to a working deportation system, and the only two options are to abolish ICE or the current situation, I fear abolishing ICE is not going to be what happens. That isn't really what anyone wants. The first step to fixing what's going wrong is to understand the failure mode. The failure mode is not in most cases "they executed him because they are evil murderers".

> "they executed him because they are evil murderers"

This does appear to be the case, same with Good

You seem to think this is a failure mode and not the system working as intended. I encourage you to read some Stephen Miller posts. Dead liberals is a nice bonus to them.

Your comments are the only level headed ones remaining since so many comments have been flagged and removed. These knee jerk reactions are not helpful and tend to be wrong.

That's murder if so, not unfortunate