Indeed, the CEO was held criminally liable, but the charges were dropped in a higher court just recently. From the article:

"In April 2023, Tapio was found guilty of criminal negligence in his handling of patient data. His conviction was overturned on appeal in December 2025. (He declined my requests to interview him.)"

More specifically, he was charged of a data protection crime (i.e., note that in Finland these GDPR-like things are also in the criminal law). However, based on local news, I suppose there was not enough evidence that it was specifically a responsibility of a CEO or that CEO-level gross negligence occurred.

According to this report [1] the appeal was about specific requirements like encryption, and he claimed he had delegated it. So it is clear that it is hard to actually hold people responsible.

> The appellate court rejected the prosecution's argument and dismissed all charges. In its unanimous decision, the court stated that neither the GDPR nor the applicable Finnish healthcare legislation required encryption or pseudonymisation of patient data at the time in question.

> Prosecutors alleged that Tapio knew about the March 2019 breach and failed to act. They claimed he neglected legal obligations to report and document the incident and did not take sufficient steps to protect the database. Tapio denied the claims, saying he was unaware of the breach until autumn 2020 and had delegated technical oversight to external IT professionals.

> The court found there was no clear legal requirement at the time obliging Tapio, as CEO, to take the specific security measures cited by the prosecution. These included firewall management, password policies, access controls, VPN implementation, and security updates.

> According to the ruling, the failure to adopt such measures did not, in the court’s view, constitute criminal negligence under Finnish law.

> Tapio’s conduct during and after the 2019 breach did not meet the threshold for criminal liability, the court concluded.

[1] https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland/finland-news/domestic/2...

No, it’s just that it’s crazy to hold the CEO liable for absolutely everything that can go wrong.

Privatize the gains and socialize the losses. egh?

So who?

It's normally the company directors that are personally liable.

Is it sane to reward them for almost absolutely everything that goes right? Because that's the status quo for this position.

But this is not “absolutely everything”. No one is saying CEOs should be accountable for every action of an individual employee.

So if not the CEO, who is accountable when something like this breach happens? The CTO? The PM The DBA? Nobody? Maybe they’ll care developer who wrote the code or botched the configuration should be prosecuted?

CEOs can justify their pay be being accountable for what their company does. They’re the CEO, after all. Maybe they’ll care more when they have some actual skin in the game.

When a bridge fails, it is the professional engineer that signed off on that part. If you want someone to sign off on software or IT you will need to pay them quite a lot.

Yes, I would expect compensation to increase proportionally with accountability. What makes no sense is compensation that increases irrespective of accountability.

Being the CEO of a company that handles risky, sensitive things should be risky for the CEO, personally. And their compensation can reflect that.

In other words, they need to hire people whose job it is to “please”.

Provide Legal Exculpation and Sign Everything

https://how-i-met-your-mother.fandom.com/wiki/Provide_Legal_...

That could be outlawed as well as it probably wouldn’t be too difficult to show that person wasn’t actually making any of the decisions. Not that I expect any of this will ever happen.

In my experience civil engineers get paid less than software developers of equivalent experience or responsibility.

Yes, but they are good at what they do. Software is more conplex and has a culture of fix it in production that would make it far more risky to sign.

I wouldn't describe software as most people experience it as more complex.

And civil engineering projects are constantly fixing unforeseen design problems either during construction or afterwards.

I would distinguish the failure modes as different though eg analog vs digital. Real world engineering can absorb an awful lot of minor mistakes through safety factors etc. Failure can be gradual or just a matter of degree or even just interpretation of standards. Software failures are often more digital or only matter when "under attack"

The CEO is responsible for ensuring that there is a routine for security.

If that is not created -> CEO responsibility.

If that is not followed -> top level mgmt responsibility.

And so on, further down the chain.

> “absolutely everything”

It isn’t absolutely everything, it’s for negligence. If you don’t have basics in place, like independent pen-tests, ISO 27001 audits — or some equivalent — when you’re handling clinical data, then that’s negligence.

If a breach happens and you were seen to have followed best practice, you won’t be found criminally negligent.

That is part of being an executive. The buck stops with you — if you’re an executive, you’d better understand your obligations, you get the big bucks for a reason. Other people in the organisation can be held accountable for criminal acts, but when it comes to criminal negligence, it’s the executives that are liable, because it’s a systemic failure and you’re deemed to be in-charge of the system.

>if you’re an executive [...] you get the big bucks for a reason

In Finland? Notably wage-compressed Finland?

No comment on the specifics of this case, I agree with you that the executive should be where the buck stops. But you would be surprised how many various execs I have met here over the years who admit behind closed doors they really do treat it as a fancy job title that barely pays above their last position, but comes with 3x the stress, and they do it simply because, well, someone has to. You can't really be surprised that most of the folks here who you might want to be in the C-suite decide it's just not worth it, that remaining a middle manager or even an IC is simply a far better value proposition.

Posting anonymously here. I was on the leadership team of a Nordic public company, reporting to the CEO, presenting to the board and representing the company at the AGM. Total comp a little under $200k.

The compensation really didn’t match what you take on in terms of responsibility and legal liability. The stress was significant too. That said, as you point out, the work needs doing.

Recommended if you have an over-active sense of duty, not otherwise.

> In Finland? Notably wage-compressed Finland?

It's all relative.

Well this is why they get paid so much isn't it? Because they carry the responsibility.

Funny whenever people complain about the GDPR here they're thinking they would be slapped with a €20Mi fine and that EU team 6 is going to parachute in their office and arrest everyone

So they're saying this is not the case?

> So they're saying this is not the case?

Yes it was. The company was fined 20M EUR on standard GDPR-basis and went bankrupt (but unlikely due to the fine alone). Please re-read the above discussion.

The GDPR fine was 608k https://www.edpb.europa.eu/news/national-news/2022/administr...

I stand corrected.

Well, not for public bodies at least: “ Administrative fines cannot be imposed on public organisations, such as the government or state-owned companies, municipalities and parishes” [1]

But luckily this sort of thing never happens in the public sector. Except for when it does: https://yle.fi/a/74-20094950

[1] https://tietosuoja.fi/en/corrective-powers

That's interesting, because if you go here https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ there are a lot of public institutions being hit with fines (if they are enforced it's another issue) - search for Municipality for example

However I don't see any municipality in Finland getting fines

Indeed, but 'the EU' isn't the one enforcing it or leveraging fines - it's up to national bodies/governments and law enforcement.

From that link we can see that the UK fined its own Ministry of Defence 400,000 EUR.

However it appears that Finish public bodies are deemed above reproach by their government.

The law is written such that they could do all that to a small family business that forgot to delete their Apache logs, which isn't good and leaves room for abuse even if they pinkie swear it's only meant for big violations.

Only after informing you, giving you the opportunity to fix things and many many other steps. The harshness is directly related to the size of the company and the companies willingness to fix any issues. They want companies to comply.

Reading the words and interpreting the law in its wider legal context are two different things

Yup, I heard of an ERP full of microservices and many endpoints dont check authorization at all and the auth mechanism doesnt check valid user credentials. Seems like they are very common.

Exactly, was it a burglary when your front door is open, lights on, spotlights on your wall safe, with the keys still inserted?

The CEO should be in prison.

Is it still assault if the guy is just standing there, within punching distance, without even wearing a helmet?

Does he have a flag?

Someone presented a hypothetical scenario: What if a hacker would write a virus, which breached a totally unprotected database after the hacker has passed away. It's clear that the therapy provider is at least partially responsible.

Posthumous crime is the ultimate because the legal system is all about punishing the living until they are dead.

In a retributive just culture, yes.

https://www.patientsafety.com/en/blog/human-error-retributiv...

If only human beings were good at learning from past mistakes. It requires multiple tries before we realize, fire bad, unless good, if controlled.

>Exactly, was it a burglary when your front door is open

Legally speaking, yes in every place I've ever lived if all those things are the case it's still a burglary, although the cops may call the victim an idiot.

In the UK, there is no crime "burglary".

"Breaking and entering" it's a criminal offence, and walking through an unlocked front door back door doesn't count. If you are on someone's land but didn't have to break in then that's trespass, which is just a civil offense.

Theft is a crime in any case (indeed even if you're not on their land e.g. snatching a phone off the street).

OK, I probably should specify closer, but while the other commenter has noted there is "burglary" in the UK, I was using burglary in the vernacular, meaning you entered someone's house without their knowledge and stole some shit. I was perhaps unclear with this and in fact in some places what entering someone's house that is not locked and stealing some shit may be a different crime than when it is locked both variations are still generally described, in common usage, as a burglary and are both illegal according to every legal code of every place I've lived, which I've lived in a lot of Western Civ type places.

The comment you are replying to has no idea what they are talking about.

Burglary is defined in the Theft Act 1968:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/9

The door can be wide open. The important parts are you are trespassing with the intent to commit a crime.

Literally invented the term ”cat burglar” lol! Commenter above is British too so it’s hilarious he thinks burglary isn’t a thing.

I am English. It took me all of like 30 seconds to look up the relevant law using Google. Most of Anglosphere has a definition of Burglary that is essentially the same and I suspect it is the same in Europe.

Yeah I was referring to higher up the stack. You’re spot on for citing the U.K. law.

That is false. Burglary is a crime in the UK.

See https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/9 and https://www.cps.gov.uk/prosecution-guidance/theft-act-offenc...

> In the UK, there is no crime "burglary".

Yes there is:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/9

https://www.college.police.uk/guidance/residential-burglary/...

> "Breaking and entering" it's a criminal offence, and walking through an unlocked front door back door doesn't count.

No breaking and entering is known as burglary. Also if you walk through the front door with the intent to commit a crime it is still burglary. The important part is trespassing with the intent to commit a crime.

Well, I was wrong, sorry for claiming assertively when clearly I didn't know what I was talking about. Thanks for the correction.

Also the insurance company doesn't pay out if they can prove you did not lock the doors.

Technically, yes it is still burglary.

It's an odd position to take, that a crime was not committed or the offense isn't as bad if the difficulties of committing the crime have been removed or reduced.

> odd position [...] offense isn't as bad if the difficulties of committing the crime have been removed or reduced

Not really, intent is a part of the crime. If the barrier for crime is extremely small, the crime itself is less egregious.

Planning a robbery is not the same as picking up a wallet on the sidewalk. This is a feature, not a bug.

This. 1000x this.

Yes, it’s still wrong to take things but the guy should get like community service teaching white hat techniques or something. The CEO should be charged with gross negligence, fraud, and any HIPPA/Medical records laws he violated - per capita. Meaning he should face 1M+ counts of …

What does "the crime is less egregious" even mean?

Morally, you burglarized a home.

Legally, at least in CA, the charge and sentencing are equivalent.

If someone also commits a murder while burglarizing you could argue the crime is more severe, but my response would be that they've committed two crimes, and the severity of the burglary in isolation is equivalent.

It's a common attitude with people from low-trust societies. "I'm not a scammer - I'm clever. If you don't want us to scam your system why do you make it so easy?"

The Internet is the ultimate low-trust society. Your virtual doorstep is right next to ~8 billion other peoples' doorsteps. And attributing attacks and enforcing consequences is extremely difficult and rather unusual.

When people from high-trust societies move to a low-trust society, they either adapt to their new environment and take an appropriately defensive posture or they will get robbed, scammed, etc.

Those naïfs from high-trust societies may not be morally at fault, but they must be blamed, because they aren't just putting themselves at risk. They must make at least reasonable efforts to secure the data in their custody.

It's been like this for decades. It's time to let go of our attachment to heaping all the culpability on attackers. Entities holding user data in custody must take the blame when they don't adequately secure that data, because that incentivizes an improved security posture.

And an improved security posture is the only credible path to a future with fewer and smaller data breaches.

See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25574200

We can start by stopping the use of posture like you’re squirming in your seat. I’ve heard that term for the last 10 years and never has it been useful. Policy yes, Practice if you must, Mandate absolutely, Governance required.

Using posture is a kin to modeling or showing off clothes, the likes of which will never see the streets. Let’s all start agreeing that the term is a rug cover for whatever security wants it to be. Without checks and balances.

If your posture is having your rear end exposed and up in public then…

It's a generic, albeit somewhat euphemistic term. I agree we could do with some better messaging. Dirty and direct is usually more effective. How about this framing?

The Internet is a dark street in rural India and your dumbass company is a pretty young white woman walking around naked and alone at 2AM. It's not your fault morally if someone rapes you, but objectively you're an idiot if you do not expect it. Now, you getting raped doesn't just hurt you; it primarily hurts people your company stores data about. Those rapists aren't going away, so we need you to take basic precautions against getting raped and we're gonna hold you accountable for doing dumb shit that predictably leads you to getting raped.

> If your posture is having your rear end exposed and up in public then…

Right, that is most companies' current security posture: Naked butt waving in the air. "Improving your security posture" is just a euphemism for "pull your pants up and put your butt down".

> Using posture is a kin to modeling or showing off clothes, the likes of which will never see the streets. Let’s all start agreeing that the term is a rug cover for whatever security wants it to be. Without checks and balances.

No, I will not agree with that; that's ridiculous. "Improve [y]our security posture" is not some magic talisman used to seize unchecked power within an organization. It's basically just the Obama Doctrine brought to computer security: "Don't do stupid shit".

“Improve [y]our security posture” absolutely is without a definition of posture. Does that mean more monitoring? More security team members?

Posture is no replacement for a plan.

Originally it was “how we follow our plan” but that has since been thrown out the window. Now, posture is code word for cover.

I don’t mean to vent it’s just tiring having to deal with varying degrees of posturing where everyone is just haphazardly laying on a couch watching TV.

Welcome to America

Powerful.

Now, how do we apply that to today’s current events?

Is it still a crime if the roadblocks to commit the crime are removed? Even applauded by some? What happens when the chief of police is telling you to go out and commit said crimes?

Law and order is dictated by the ruling party. What was a crime yesterday may not be a crime today.

So if all you did was turn a key and now you’re a burglar going to prison, when the CEO of the house spent months setting up the perfect crime scene, shouldn’t the CEO at least get an accomplice charge? Insurance fraud starts the same way…

Yes it absolutely is still a burglary. Classic victim blaming.

Who’s the victim? The CEO? I think the patients are the victims here.

I'm not well versed in Finnish law - but in the USA simply the act of accessing a computer without authorization, even if it not secured, can be a crime under the CFAA. So the company is still a victim, and obviously the patients as well, even if they are incompetent. For the same reason that a person that gets burgled because they left their door unlocked when they left the house is still a victim.

But if you attest that your computer system is not accessible by any passersby in order to pass compliance, is that not also a crime? If it is indeed accessible to just anyone? HIPAA law violations and all that

I’m not arguing the person who stole didn’t commit a crime - just a lesser one than actually breaking in, cracking a safe, and making off with the jewels. I think the CEO and executive staff are culpable.

Yes. Similarly, If I leave my car unlocked with the keys in the ignition, and someone takes it is still a crime. It might be unwise to do that (depending on where you are), but nonetheless it is still crime.

> The CEO should be in prison.

Yes.

> Exactly, was it a burglary when your front door is open, lights on, spotlights on your wall safe, with the keys still inserted?

The thing isn't just the discovery of the "open door", though. Thousands of people were extorted in a pretty heinous way. Even if we say breaking in took little sophistication or effort, what was done with the data also matters.

Still reading the story but just hit that line and came here to snarkily post, “another MongoDB success story”. I should probably talk to my therapist about this desire to be seen as funny.

Having now read it, the CEO did get convicted.