Can you explain how? Poor standards implementation? Performance? UX?

No full screen API so impossible to make lots of types of game experiences.

No orientation API so impossible to make games and other experiences that require a certain orientation

No WebXR (though Apple will allow it on Vision Pro)

No support for ResizeObvserver devicePixelContentBoxSize so impossible to get correct rendering reguardless of user's zoom level.

No simple PWA installation. Requires an obscure incantation that only expert users know.

That's just a few off the top of my head.

Yes, I know all the comments will be about how they don't want those features. That's really irrelevant. Allow them to be turned off. Require permissions. Those features have been shipping on other OSes, Desktop and Mobile for > 5 years and the world hasn't ended.

The world hasn’t ended but it arguably got worse with most of those features. Good enough reason to not implement them.

I hear this a lot, but have used Safari as my since it was launch in 2003.Performance has always been great. UI has always been minimalist, out of the way, and has never upsold me on anything. There are times where it lags and times where it leads standards. There may be a a site every now and then that doesn’t work, but iOS makes that less likely. The only thing I can ever think of is that it’s not <insert favorite browser> or doesn’t have <some favorite esoteric feature>.

That said, the only plugins I use are ad blockers, so maybe I’m missing something.

It might look ok from user's point of view, but lot of the problems fall on web developers who have to work around a bunch of these issues to make their pages work in Safari

I was doing web dev or related from 2000 to 2016. IE6 was far worse than anything Safari has done.

Been working with web related tech since the early 00’s. Safari has just never been a problem except for invasive ads, like back in the Flash days.

This is such nonsense and everyone who’s a web developer knows you’re not being honest here but just to make it ever clearer for anyone else here’s a chart showing the number of bugs that only occur in a single browser.

https://wpt.fyi/results/?label=master&label=experimental&ali...

It’s undeniable that Apple makes a dogshit browser.

> This is such nonsense and everyone who’s a web developer knows you’re not being honest

And in your opinion "being honest" is speaking for every web dev out there?

I've been a web dev for 25 years (god I'm old) and Safari has not been a major pain for me.

You keep bandying wpt.fyi results around not even understanding what they mean. E.g. Safari only passes 8 out of 150 accelerometer tests. So? Does it affect every web dev? Lol no. But it does pass 57 out 57 accessibility tests which is significantly more important.

Late on a lot of standards, quirky in many ways and just a lot of bugs, especially around images and videos. Also positioning issues. They recently broke even position fixed, which broke a ton of web pages on iOS, including apple.com

I’d like the extension ecosystem from chrome or Firefox. I miss having real Firefox with real Ublock like on Android.

I find the “use reader automatically “ setting helps a lot

The extension ecosystem that Google has been locking down? You can get the same UBlock extension on Safari and Chrome now (on Safari desktop and iOS).

Good thing I mentioned Firefox. Ublock on safari and iOS is not the same.

Yes, it's not the same as the one available still on Firefox. But you said "I’d like the extension ecosystem from chrome or Firefox". I'm pointing out that the Chrome one has been limited and now runs the same UBlock version that Safari runs.

Good thing I mentioned Firefox

I cannot go through a day without "this tab has been reloaded due to a problem" on Safari iOS and any other browser. It's been happening for years, across phones. It's dogshit. Safari Mac is fine.

Even if that's an edge case, it's why having only one engine is pathological. Maybe Safari iOS works fine for you. Not for me. I don't want rationalization on why it's not Apple's fault, or somehow not Safari's fault, or "they'll fix it one day", or "I'm doing it wrong", or all the fanboy-talk that sounds like the enabling relative of an alcoholic. Don't care. I should be able to switch for even the most frivolous reason. Maybe I don't like that it doesn't render every website in pink.

It's like having only one type of chocolate in existence. This was never normal.

I did not know that was even a thing that can happen.

Do you see any pattern to which pages it happens to?

It’s INCREDIBLY rare I see that. Phone or desktop, lots of surfing, all day long, for two decades.