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Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by pjmlp on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @10:46AM (#46206197)
There are plenty of European businesses, our salaries don't grow on trees.
Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by nalnq on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:02AM (#46206461)
That depends. In Spain, there are 500K more people living off the government than working in the private sector: https://theobjective.com/economia/macroeconomia/2024-09-16/a...
Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by pjmlp on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:13AM (#46206630)
Guess how the government gets the money from the taxes.
Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by monero-xmr on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:11AM (#46206610)
Europe in general is cooked because the majority live on the dole and out vote the productive class. 40% unemployment in France for under 35 and they all get welfare. Soon the retired will outnumber the workers. It’s over. Unfortunately there is simply no way to solve this in a democracy before the collapse. Will have bond market disaster followed by standard of living collapse, fingers will point everywhere but themselves
Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by q3k on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:21AM (#46206772)
You got some sources for those numbers?
Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by monero-xmr on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:37AM (#46207016)
https://www.unedic.org/publications/qui-sont-les-allocataire...

translated:

> Of the 6.2 million people registered with France Travail in the 3rd quarter of 2024, 6 out of 10 are beneficiaries supported by the Unemployment Insurance. Persons not in charge of the Unemployment Insurance have not worked sufficiently to open a right or to reload it, or work on a contract that has not been broken, or are out of the field (part of the civil service, resignations and self-employed). Within the 3.8 million people in care, 2.6 million receive compensation. Those in care but who do not receive an allowance have generally worked and received a high salary relative to their reference salary. They may also be covered by the Health Insurance or in deferred compensation at the beginning of their right.

> Those under 35 represent a significant proportion of the beneficiaries (41%). They are more frequently hired for limited-time contracts, which more often leads them to grant unemployment insurance.

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/the-decline-of-europe-in-gallic-...

> Meanwhile, public spending accounts for 57% of the French GDP. And “to ensure the financing of spending for those over 65,” it will steadily increase to 60.8% by 2070, the Court of Auditors found. That’s assuming per capita spending stays at 2023 levels instead of increasing. Social spending will inevitably crowd out other priorities, including defense.

Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by q3k on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:42AM (#46207086)
> Those under 35 represent a significant proportion of the beneficiaries (41%).

This doesn't mean '40% unemployment in France for under 35 and they all get welfare'. It means 41% of unemployment insurance beneficiaries are under 35.

I'm also still looking for a source for 'the majority live on the dole and out vote the productive class.' and 'Soon the retired will outnumber the workers.'.

Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by monero-xmr on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:46AM (#46207145)
The same WSJ oped said:

> Someone’s got to pay as papa becomes grand-père, but the forecast is bleak. Today there are 39 seniors for every 100 working-age people in France. But by 2070 working-age French will account for only 50% of the population, down from more than 55% in 2023.

If only half the population is working-age and many of them are on the dole or not working (as they are now), it's quite clear the entire social appartus will need to be supported by a fraction of the population. To be clear - this will not work! The political turbulence in France will only increase. They can't even sustain their minor reduction in retirement age from 64 to 62 without the government imploding. There is literally zero chance of saving this system. Collapse followed by massive cuts is the only way

Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by riedel on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @10:51AM (#46206282)
And those pay our taxes. I think of there was a decent digital tax, the EC would also have a better motivation to just move on...
Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by constantcrying on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @10:55AM (#46206341)
The idea that just because Europe still has some profitable businesses left, there is no need to compete for global technological leadership is so absurd that even putting it into words is hard.

E.g. Germany, the largest EU economy, is very dependent on their car export industry. Guess which industry isn't too hot right now? Do you think you salary will survive the EU losing their export markets? Mine surely will not.

Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by Nextgrid on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @10:58AM (#46206398)
> compete for global technological leadership

Yet every time the EU tries to enforce regulations so that technological competition becomes actually possible everyone is mad about it.

Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by pb7 on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:06AM (#46206523)
How come only the EU needs to stifle existing companies to be able to have a chance to compete? How come OpenAI or Anthropic or Cursor didn't come out of the EU? I'll give you a hint, it's not because of big bad Google.
Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by fullofideas on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:22AM (#46206798)
While I agree with the sentiment, it is not true that only EU takes a “nationalistic” stance and safeguards its interests. US is famously doing it with tariffs..to bring back manufacturing, and I also remember hearing “America first”.

Doesn’t make what EU is doing right, just that everyone is stifling outside competition in some form.

Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by mhitza on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:23AM (#46206810)
> How come OpenAI or Anthropic or Cursor didn't come out of the EU?

Access to VCs and funding is easier in the US. Heck, even if you try to build your own startup, with your own funds, when you're out there looking for investments soon enough being "delaware incorporated" will become a requirement.

Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by pb7 on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:26AM (#46206859)
Why do you think there is more funding in the US?
Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by mhitza on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:48AM (#46207175)
I don't know the legislation and contract law pertains to funding, and why EU companies need to move to the US to get investor funds (and can't be funded internationally while retaining EU status).

What I can tell you from my experience in seeking out venture/angel/seed funding opportunities in the EU is that many (most) that turn up on search results don't have a "pitch us" form and more of a "we'll find you if we want to fund you". There are also incubators, a la YCombinator, that provide only mentorship and no funding (ie. I would need to quit my job and sustain myself to build a startup).

Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by Nextgrid on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:14AM (#46206661)
> only the EU needs to stifle existing companies to be able to have a chance to compete [emphasis mine]

Tell me another country that competes with the US on monopolistic tech platforms? The only one I know of is China, and that's because their GFW and regulations essentially prevented US platforms from taking hold to begin with, and their stronghold on tech manufacturing means they actually have teeth when it comes to securing concessions from Western techbros (where as the EU couldn't even be bothered to enforce the GDPR).

Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by re-thc on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @12:29PM (#46207775)
> How come only the EU needs to stifle existing companies to be able to have a chance to compete?

It's not required to compete. It's just their style and old fashioned. A 1 point hitting kids was the way to go. We all know how that went. The world has changed. Those kingdom eras no longer exist. The EU should bring out real substance.

Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by constantcrying on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:06AM (#46206528)
Competition by whom? The entire EU software industry is completely pathetic.

The EU has been regulating the US tech for over a decade. In that time the EU has only fallen further behind.

Meanwhile China has been steadily moving towards being an actual competitor to the US, while the EU is loosing the one large industry which it has left, manufacturing, to China.

This whole thing is pathetic. Of the goal of the EC ever was the creation of a competitive EU software industry it was a total failure and it was bound to be a total failure. Because what they did were idiotic regulations.

Everything the regulations have accomplished is that trying to compete in the EU puts such an enormous legal burden on any prospective competitor that failure is guaranteed.

Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by Nextgrid on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:20AM (#46206750)
> China has been steadily moving towards being an actual competitor to the US

China is in this position because of regulations (and technological enforcement of them like GFW), which prevented US tech from taking any significant foothold and left the market available for local competition.

> enormous legal burden on any prospective competitor that failure is guaranteed

Can you tell me which business can't work in the EU? Selling software is legal. Operating a SaaS is legal. Hell, even industrial-scale spyware is legal, as long as you become big quickly enough so that enforcing the GDPR against you becomes counterproductive. The only thing I see that can't be done is industrial-scale corporation-on-consumer fraud, but I don't think we're losing much because of that.

Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by constantcrying on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @12:01PM (#46207359)
>China is in this position because of regulations

Then the regulations of the EC just fucking sucked and destroyed all chances of the EU ever having a competitive software industry.

Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by Nextgrid on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @12:32PM (#46207818)
The regulations were good, it's just that enforcement was and remains dysfunctional and basically non-existent.

Those business-ending GDPR fines HN loves fear-mongering about never materialized. Similarly with the DMA - Apple is still being allowed to stall and wage bureaucratic warfare to not comply.

In contrast, when in China people were found to be using AirDrop's "open to everyone" feature to share content the CCP deemed inappropriate, we quickly got a change where AirDrop would only stay open to everyone for 10 mins before reverting back to "contacts only".

If the EU had the same balls they would give Apple an ultimatum and you'd get alternate browser engines, app stores, and the right to "sideload" overnight.

Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by az09mugen on Wednesday December 10, 2025 @02:44AM (#46215175)
Username checks out.
Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by pjmlp on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:16AM (#46206687)
There is more to the economy than technology bros.
Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by constantcrying on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @12:00PM (#46207349)
I am not a "tech bro" at all. Read the post, my salary is part of European manufacturing.
Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by pjmlp on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @01:27PM (#46208570)
So what? There is more to the economy than AI startups with SV money.
Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by constantcrying on Wednesday December 10, 2025 @08:13AM (#46217295)
If the manufacturing economy of Europe looses out to China, which currently seems very likely, I, and millions of other people, will be out of a job, with no possible chance of ever earning anything close to a reasonable wage.

Who cares about AI. The EU is loosing on everything.

Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by paganel on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @10:51AM (#46206271)
Our salaries have certainly not kept up with the pace from across the Atlantic, I'm talking last 10 to 15 years.
Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by dns_snek on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:12AM (#46206623)
When you say "our", do you mean "the median employee", tech workers, or some other group?

Because while this is true for tech companies, you must consider where that money comes from and how much (more) human suffering goes into it. I'd rather live in society where I make a decent living and people aren't (as) exploited.

edit, to add: I'm exaggerating to make my point clearer, but in these discussions I always get the distinct feeling that if the US still had slavery, American farmers would be making snide remarks about how uncompetitive and anti-business the EU is with all of our pesky regulations.

Meanwhile a vocal minority of European farmers would be pointing at the US, complaining about how much less money they make than American farmers, and pressuring our representatives to legalize slavery because otherwise we're all going to get left behind. In other words it all feels a bit absurd when nobody is considering the negative externalities of these policies.

Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by paganel on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:35AM (#46206982)
> tech workers, or some other group?

This was in the context of innovation (or lack thereof), and this being a tech-website then, yes, I'm mostly talking about tech workers. One cannot have (tech) innovation while getting paid 5 to 10 times less (and in many cases I'm being generous to the European employers here) compared to what's happening across the ocean. That's why SAP is still a big thing in Germany and that's why Tesla (and then the Chinese) were able to eat Germany's car-software lunch.

Re:EU investigates Google over AI-generated summaries in sea... by pjmlp on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @11:15AM (#46206668)
They need those salaries to pay for health insurance, and being fired on the spot with security escort, without anyone to fallback into.