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A comment on Claude 4.5 Opus' Soul Document. Parent comment

Re:Claude 4.5 Opus' Soul Document by dist-epoch on Tuesday December 02, 2025 @03:37PM (#46126509)
It isn't "China" which open-source LLMs, but individual Chinese labs.

China didn't yet made a sovereign move on AI, besides investing in research/hardware.

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Re:Claude 4.5 Opus' Soul Document by baq on Tuesday December 02, 2025 @04:01PM (#46126824)
Axiom of China: nothing of importance happens in China without CCP involvement.
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Re:Claude 4.5 Opus' Soul Document by yorwba on Tuesday December 02, 2025 @05:14PM (#46127668)
The CCP controlling the government doesn't mean they micromanage everything. Some Chinese AI companies release the weights of even their best models (DeepSeek, Moonshot AI), others release weights for small models, but not the largest ones (Alibaba, Baidu), some keep almost everything closed (Bytedance and iFlytek, I think).

There is no CCP master plan for open models, any more than there is a Western master plan for ignoring Chinese models only available as an API.

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Re:Claude 4.5 Opus' Soul Document by baq on Tuesday December 02, 2025 @05:29PM (#46127829)
Never suggested anything of the sort, involvement doesn’t mean direct control, it might be a passive ‘let us know if there’s progress’ issued privately, it might also be a passive ‘we want to be #1 in AI in 2030’ announced publicly, neither requires any micromanagement whatsoever: CCP’s expectation is companies figuring out how to align to party directives themselves… or face consequences.
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Re:Claude 4.5 Opus' Soul Document by shroobani on Tuesday December 02, 2025 @09:08PM (#46129487)
Unlike the US, where there are no consequences for not aligning with the ruling party's directives.
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Re:Claude 4.5 Opus' Soul Document by mlinhares on Tuesday December 02, 2025 @11:33PM (#46130342)
The US couldn't make China follow it, so it is now following China's lead LOL.
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Re:Claude 4.5 Opus' Soul Document by baq on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @04:20AM (#46132226)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

(not that I disagree)

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Re:Claude 4.5 Opus' Soul Document by throw10920 on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @09:58AM (#46135221)
This isn't even whataboutism, because the comparison is just insane.

The difference between the CCP, where "private" companies must actively pursue the party's strategic interests or cease to exist (and their executives/employees can be killed), and the US, where neither of those things happen and the worst penalty for a company not following the government's direction (while continuing to follow the law, which should be an obvious caveat) is the occasional fine for not complying with regulation or losing preference for government contracts, is categorical.

Only those who are either totally ignorant or seeking to spread propaganda would even compare the two.

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Re:Claude 4.5 Opus' Soul Document by antonvs on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @04:39AM (#46132394)
In other words, your original comment was pointless speculation with no real basis.
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Re:Claude 4.5 Opus' Soul Document by baq on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @05:03AM (#46132619)
you're welcome to educate yourself if you don't trust anons on the internet.
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Re:Claude 4.5 Opus' Soul Document by antonvs on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @08:22AM (#46134196)
It’s not a question of “not trusting”, it’s simply recognizing when they (you) are obviously wrong.
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Re:Claude 4.5 Opus' Soul Document by jimbo808 on Tuesday December 02, 2025 @10:07PM (#46129839)
They don't have to micromanage companies. A company's activities must align with the goals of the CCP, or it will not continue to exist. This produces companies that will micromanage themselves in accordance with the CCP's strategic vision.
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Re:Claude 4.5 Opus' Soul Document by antonvs on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @05:11AM (#46132665)
That seems irrelevant in this case, given that China has companies all over the spectrum in terms of the degree of openness of their AI products.
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Re:Claude 4.5 Opus' Soul Document by throwup238 on Tuesday December 02, 2025 @04:01PM (#46126826)
As far as I can tell AI is already playing a big part in the Chinese Fifteenth five year plan (2026-2030) which is their central top-down planning mechanism. That’s about as big a move as they can make.
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Re:Claude 4.5 Opus' Soul Document by esafak on Tuesday December 02, 2025 @06:21PM (#46128306)
I think the plan is due next March? I believe it includes at AI Plus initiative:

https://triviumchina.com/research/the-ai-plus-initiative-chi...

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Re:Claude 4.5 Opus' Soul Document by iambateman on Tuesday December 02, 2025 @03:54PM (#46126732)
This is a distinction without a difference.
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Re:Claude 4.5 Opus' Soul Document by reissbaker on Tuesday December 02, 2025 @05:33PM (#46127881)
I think "investing in research and hardware" is fairly relevant to my claim of "China has been investing in open-source LLMs." China also has partial ownership of several major labs via "golden shares" [1] like Alibaba (Qwen) and Zai (GLM) [2], albeit not DeepSeek as far as I know.

1: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/13/china-to-take-...

2: https://www.globalneighbours.org/chinas-zhipu-ai-secures-140...

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