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Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by chii on Monday November 24, 2025 @12:26AM (#46030654)
the root cause is customers refusing to punish these downtime.

Checkout how hard customers punish blackouts from the grid - both via wallet, but also via voting/gov't. It's why they are now more reliable.

So unless the backbone infrastructure gets the same flak, nothing is going to change. After all, any change is expensive, and the cost of that change needs to be worth it.

Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by MikeNotThePope on Monday November 24, 2025 @12:48AM (#46030757)
Is a little downtime such a bad thing? Trying to avoid some bumps and bruises in your business has diminishing returns.
Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by Xelbair on Monday November 24, 2025 @02:20AM (#46031253)
Even more so when most of the internet is also down.

What are customers going to do? Go to competitor that's also down?

It is extremely annoying, will ruin your day, but as movie quote goes - if everyone is special, no one is.

Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by immibis on Monday November 24, 2025 @03:50AM (#46031781)
They could go to your competitor that's up. If you choose to be up, your competitor's customers could go to you.
Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by dewey on Monday November 24, 2025 @04:02AM (#46031856)
If it’s that easy to get the exact same service / product as another vendor the maybe your competitive advantage isn’t so high. If Amazon would be down I’d just wait a few hours as I don’t want to sign up on another site.
Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by MikeNotThePope on Monday November 24, 2025 @05:23AM (#46032417)
I agree. These days it seems like everything is a micro-optimization to squeeze out a little extra revenue. Eventually most companies lose sight of the need to offer a compelling product that people would be willing to wait for.
Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by immibis on Tuesday November 25, 2025 @01:59PM (#46049358)
Why can't we just take pride in doing a good job?
Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by throwaway0352 on Monday November 24, 2025 @07:50AM (#46033552)
I think you’re viewing the issue from an office worker’s perspective. For us, downtime might just mean heading to the coffee machine and taking a break.

But if a restaurant loses access to its POS system (which has happened), or you’re unable to purchase a train ticket, the consequences are very real. Outages like these have tangible impacts on everyday life. That’s why there’s definitely room for competitors who can offer reliable backup strategies to keep services running.

Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by mallets on Monday November 24, 2025 @08:46AM (#46034040)
Those are examples where they shouldn't be using public cloud in the first place. Should build those services to be local-first.

Using a different, smaller cloud provider doesn't improve reliability (likely makes it worse) if the architecture itself wrong.

Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by esseph on Tuesday November 25, 2025 @12:19AM (#46042593)
It makes credit card transactions risky (offline)
Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by mallets on Tuesday November 25, 2025 @08:06AM (#46045415)
Talking more about some unrelated function taking down the whole system, not advocating for "offline" credit card transactions (is this even a thing these days?). Ex: If the transaction needs to be logged somewhere, it can be built to sync whenever possible rather than blocking all transactions if the central service is down.

Payment processor being down is payment processor being down.

Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by wongarsu on Monday November 24, 2025 @09:12AM (#46034318)
Do any of those competitors actually have meaningfully better uptime?

From a societal level, having everything shut down at once is an issue. But if you only have one POS system targeting only one backend URL (and that backend has to be online for the POS to work) then cloudflare seems like one of the best choices

If the uptime provided by cloudflare isn't enough then the solution isn't a cloudflare competitor, it's the ability to operate offline (which many POS have, including for card purchases) or at least multiple backends with different DNS, CDN, server location etc.

Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by Xelbair on Friday November 28, 2025 @08:03AM (#46078285)
Cash exists, physical tickets exists.

those things shouldn't be fully tied to the internet/intranet anyways.

Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by krige on Monday November 24, 2025 @01:14AM (#46030878)
What's "a little downtime" to you might be work ruined and day wasted for someone else.
Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by bloppe on Monday November 24, 2025 @04:07AM (#46031900)
I remember a Google cloud outage years ago that happened to coincide with one of our customers' massively expensive TV ads. All the people who normally would've gone straight to their website instead got 502. Probably a 1M+ loss for them all things considered.

We got an extremely angry email about it.

Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by fragmede on Monday November 24, 2025 @02:24AM (#46031277)
It's 2025. That downtime could be be difference between my cat pics not loading fast enough, or someone's teleoperated robot surgeon glitching out.
Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by cactusplant7374 on Monday November 24, 2025 @09:42AM (#46034651)
I have a lot of bad days every year. More than I can count. It's just part of living.
Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by aaron_m04 on Monday November 24, 2025 @01:08AM (#46030853)
Depends on the business.
Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by whatevaa on Monday November 24, 2025 @01:54AM (#46031114)
Grid reliability depends on where you live. In some places, UPS or even a generator is a must have. So it's a bad example, I would say.
Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by mopsi on Monday November 24, 2025 @01:15AM (#46030886)
Downtimes happen one way or another. The upside of using Cloudflare is that bringing things back online is their problem and not mine like when I self-host. :]

Their infrastructure went down for a pretty good reason (let the one who has never caused that kind of error cast the first stone) and was brought back within a reasonable time.

Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by LoganDark on Monday November 24, 2025 @07:21AM (#46033313)
> Checkout how hard customers punish blackouts from the grid - both via wallet, but also via voting/gov't.

What? Since when has anyone ever been free to just up and stop paying for power from the grid? Are you going to pay $10,000 - $100,000 to have another power company install lines? Do you even have another power company in the area? State? Country? Do you even have permission for that to happen near your building? Any building?

The same is true for internet service, although personally I'd gladly pay $10,000 - $100,000 to have literally anything else at my location, but there are no proper other wired providers and I'll die before I ever install any sort of cellular router. Also this is a rented apartment so I'm fucked even if there were competition, although I plan to buy a house in a year or two.

Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by heartbreak on Monday November 24, 2025 @08:25AM (#46033849)
The hyperscalers definitely vote with their wallets.
Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by tjwebbnorfolk on Monday November 24, 2025 @01:40PM (#46037457)
> the root cause is customers refusing to punish these downtime.

ok how do I punish cloudflare -- build my own globally-distributed content-delivery network just for myself so that I can be "decentralized"?

Or should I go to one of their even-larger competitors like AWS or GCP?

What exactly do you propose?

Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by chii on Monday November 24, 2025 @10:08PM (#46041954)
you are not a customer of cloudflare.

You need to be punishing the services you "paid" to use, but had downtime. So did you terminate any of those services for downtime, or had any sort of punishment done to them as a result?

Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by tjwebbnorfolk on Tuesday November 25, 2025 @01:09PM (#46048724)
Ok but the price I am paying includes some % of downtime in the SLA, and I am ok with that.

If I wanted 100.00000% uptime, I would have to pay much more, but I don't want to

Re:The Cloudflare outage was a good thing by niutech on Tuesday November 25, 2025 @06:31AM (#46044808)
Why not just boycott CDNs like Cloudflare and instead host your website on a decentralized network like Bluesky (https://danielmangum.com/posts/this-website-is-hosted-on-blu...) or IPFS (https://pinme.eth.limo/) for free?