News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by Y-bar on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @01:00PM (#45735494)
I remember a story a couple of weeks ago, or perhaps earlier this year about the lead-up to the NSDAP takeover of the German government in the mid 1900:s. It was something about just overwhelming people with pointless crisis and issues to keep you busy and preoccupied both physically and mentally so not to notice the truly bad things going when the democratic state was eroding.

This seems like one such thing, it's a ploy for the public, it distracts from other things, it takes space away from other thing in the news, it ties up courts and others.

Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by rhcom2 on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @01:56PM (#45736352)
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by honzabe on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @02:33PM (#45736880)
"…it consumed all one’s energies, coming on top of the work one really wanted to do. You can see how easy it was, then, not to think about fundamental things. One had no time."

I read this recently on Hacker News, in a discussion about "They Thought They Were Free" (1955) [1]

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45321663

Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by Y-bar on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @03:39PM (#45737951)
That's the one I was thinking about, thanks!
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by throw0101a on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @04:03PM (#45738350)
> It was something about just overwhelming people with pointless crisis and issues to keep you busy and preoccupied both physically and mentally so not to notice the truly bad things going when the democratic state was eroding.

This is something that Russia has been doing for more than a decade:

> We characterize the contemporary Russian model for propaganda as “the firehose of falsehood” because of two of its distinctive features: high numbers of channels and messages and a shameless willingness to disseminate partial truths or outright fictions. In the words of one observer, “[N]ew Russian propaganda entertains, confuses and overwhelms the audience.”2

> Contemporary Russian propaganda has at least two other distinctive features. It is also rapid, continuous, and repetitive, and it lacks commitment to consistency.

> Interestingly, several of these features run directly counter to the conventional wisdom on effective influence and communication from government or defense sources, which traditionally emphasize the importance of truth, credibility, and the avoidance of contradiction.3 Despite ignoring these traditional principles, Russia seems to have enjoyed some success under its contemporary propaganda model, either through more direct persuasion and influence or by engaging in obfuscation, confusion, and the disruption or diminution of truthful reporting and messaging.

* https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html

Steve Bannon used the same technique during Trump 1.0:

> While watching the news coverage of Steve Bannon’s initial appearance in federal court on Monday, I kept thinking about his 2018 confession to the acclaimed writer Michael Lewis. His quote is like a compass that orients this crazy era of American politics. “The Democrats don’t matter,” Bannon told Lewis. “The real opposition is the media. And the way to deal with them is to flood the zone with shit.”

> That’s the Bannon business model: Flood the zone. Stink up the joint. As Jonathan Rauch once said, citing Bannon’s infamous quote, “This is not about persuasion: This is about disorientation.”

* https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/16/media/steve-bannon-reliable-s...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bannon#Political_ideolog...

Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by legitster on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @02:20PM (#45736710)
In his interviews, this is more or less what Yuri Bezmenov described the aim of Russian propaganda was. It's hard to just get people to buy into ideas, but if you just turn up the volume on existing noise, it's simultaneously authentic but also robs people of discerning what's true or worth prioritizing.

The irony is all of his concerns were about the spread of Marxism in the US. Well, it turns out the methods are useful for anyone.

Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by red-iron-pine on Wednesday October 29, 2025 @11:19AM (#45747976)
This is the Russian Firehose model

detailed report about it from RAND Corp: https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html

The approach can be considered something of a DDoS attack on your attention span and mental energy: keep up a constant attack, and then, at intervals known only to the attacker, drop the flow just for a second to allow for an attack -- in this case, to allow for the official party line to be created and spread via Fox News, RT, etc.

When mentally exhausted, people eventually gravitate to that which hits their "bellyfeel" best, and by pandering to that and tying it into whatever agenda you want to push, you can essentially push a narrative that is 100% against the interests of the people supporting it.

Capitalism's ruthless, creep-into-everything marketing approaches make this even easier, since there exists apparatus to do this already, and all you need to make it work is to pay for the marketing (via ads, influencers, marketing bots, etc.).

Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by zerosizedweasle on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @02:19PM (#45736695)
What I despise about the stock investing climate right now is it is doing exactly this
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by Herring on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @02:29PM (#45736835)
I don't like putting the blame on a "takeover". Democracy is about a kind of equality among people, and the US has had a strong anti-democratic strain since slavery. Probably even feudalism before that. Once you see it, you see it everywhere and can't unsee it. There's a reason Trump's best polling issue is immigration. https://www.natesilver.net/p/trump-approval-ratings-nate-sil...

There was always going to be a day of reckoning. If you want multiculturalism, you need to follow Europe's lead with everything from strictly banning Nazis (Germany), to healthcare, to getting over 90% mutlilingualism (Nordic countries).

Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by IAmBroom on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @03:14PM (#45737501)
> Democracy is about a kind of equality among people, and the US has had a strong anti-democratic strain since slavery. Probably even feudalism before that.

Yeah, I remember reading about all those US feudal lords that preceded slavery...

Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by fatbird on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @01:13PM (#45735698)
Or as Steve Bannon put it: "flood the zone with shit"
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by lo_zamoyski on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @02:01PM (#45736463)
You don't need to go the reductio ad Hitlerum route. Distraction, lawfare, divide-and-conquer are old, tried, and tested tactics for diverting attention, grinding down the opposition, and scattering threats. It isn't unique to this administration nor to our times.

(Incidentally, in the US, divide-and-conquer often happens on racial grounds, for example. When American oligarchy starts feeling threatened, it can easily reach for the race card by giving the appropriate people a platform to manufacture paranoia, grievance, outrage, indignation, and antipathy. Solidarity breaks down. People stop talking about how badly they're being governed and manipulated by gov't and private interest and shift focus toward hating each other. Indeed, this is how democracies function in practice. Whereas dictatorships often rely on a good deal of brute force, oligarchs in democracies must be craftier in their methods - this includes the abuse of media, or the phenomenon of sexual lib, as described by Aldous Huxley, as another intersecting example. The citizen cannot know he is subject to manipulation or coercion. Media and education become instruments of conditioning and inculcation, with society functioning as a force multiplier.)

Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by Y-bar on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @03:50PM (#45738129)
I don't think I did, at least not harshly. I was just seemingly finding a political pattern which I recognised from earlier, and that happened to be what it was. Was I incorrect in my observation or were you reminded of https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/14/private-chat-among-... perhaps?

I partly agree with your general observation in parenthesis there, it seems this situation is being significantly sponsored by the American oligarchy (e.g. Thiel).

Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by bitexploder on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @02:39PM (#45736946)
This is all truthy but loses nuance and is too tidy. The oligarchy is not a unified body, but it often resembles one.
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by lo_zamoyski on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @05:02PM (#45739136)
Of course it isn't. Oligarchs jockey for power all the time amongst themselves, even while they have converging interests.
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by danaris on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @03:16PM (#45737542)
> You don't need to go the reductio ad Hitlerum route.

And yet, when the people at the top, the ones implementing these strategies and policies, are explicitly lionizing Hitler in a variety of ways, on top of mimicking his policies, strategies, values, and ideals, suddenly treating the comparison as if it's absurd or illogical starts to seem like it's trying to distract us from something...

[dead]
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by embedding-shape on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @02:02PM (#45736480)
Except similar things happened in multiple countries in the world at the same time, yet most are not slipping closer and closer to authoritarianism today.
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by jack_tripper on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @04:50PM (#45738976)
Like which?
[dead]
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by simmerup on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @02:01PM (#45736448)
So you're okay with Project 2025 because its your team?
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by balaz on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @02:06PM (#45736523)
I’m not even American.
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by ncgl on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @01:09PM (#45735629)
During dt's first term I believed this as well and eagerly awaited the Mueller investigation.

Then when he won reelection I concluded I was consuming media in an echo chamber.

This fear you're commenting on goes way farther back than dt.

Ballroom, mueller investigation, Benghazi, guantanemo, tan suit, parkland, Alex Jones, mission accomplished, 911. These all got airtime. Some longer than others.

You're commenting on the nature of media to fill silence with noise, and the expectation we place on the reader to triage the news.

Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by itsalwaysgood on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @01:43PM (#45736146)
Biased newsfeeds are one thing, cronyism and flooding courts/weaponizing the judicial system are a different thing.

It could be the case that the level of cronyism and weaponizing we see today is the same amount as in the past.

It's up to the reader to determine how much of their opinion is due to bias, and how much is due to a real increase in nefarious political strategy. Some are more diligent about checking their sources that others.

Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by lo_zamoyski on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @02:16PM (#45736659)
> weaponizing the judicial system

To be fair to Trump, he was the target of lawfare after his election loss in 2020, for instance. He claimed later that he would have vengeance. Not a magnanimous move, but Trump is not magnanimous. He has stated before that he enjoys destroying his enemies, with relish and verve.

In any case, when we fixate on one political figure or party, we lose sight of the general picture. In sociological terms, Trump is not very important. He is more of an expression of the times than their cause. He may catalyze certain changes, but he's hardly alone in doing that. In the broad sense, the general historical trajectory is not really deflected by him.

A wiser perspective is to look at broad trends. One should read Plato's Republic. The decadence of society described in that book - degenerating into timocracy (rule by honor), then oligarchy (rule by wealth), then democracy (rule by freedom), ending finally in anarchy - are a good context for understanding how these processes tend to play out.

Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by cosmicgadget on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @02:35PM (#45736908)
So those boxes of classified documents were totally innocuous? "Find me votes" and alternate elector slates weren't to advance his stated goal of reversing his loss?
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by ncgl on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @03:49PM (#45738110)
I think my point is you're expected to triage find me votes vs 911. And the fact that find me votes is in the news isn't indicative of democratic decline, its the way the news work.
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by cosmicgadget on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @04:10PM (#45738449)
I am not sure I understand. Both of those events are significant: a sophisticated terrorist attack on the United States and a president trying to coerce a swing state governor into changing its election results.

News triages the newsworthiness. Viewers triage what elements of the news that are most meaningful to them.

I don't really see the problem, except qualms about execution.

Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by ncgl on Thursday October 30, 2025 @07:54AM (#45759038)
News triages newsworthiness based on clicks, its incentivized to get an emotional reaction out of you.

The reader has to wade through all that to triage the absolute importance.

After years of consuming media that led me to believe dt was a Russian spy or at best a political underdog I stopped believing there was some grand scheme that he's trying to overtake the government. Half the country voted for him twice, the dedicated investigation did not convict him of collusion, the supreme court is doing its job.

Do you not see the trend to keep you anticipating some terrible coup etc?

Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by dragonwriter on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @02:22PM (#45736727)
> To be fair to Trump, he was the target of lawfare after his election loss in 2020, for instance.

To be fair to reality, no, he wasn’t. He committed a number of very serious crimes flagrantly out in the open and the Justice Department was inordinately slow in responding to them out of a number of factors, including institutional partisan bias (even under Democratic Administration the bulk of the federal criminal investigatory apparatus has always been Republican, including political appointees at the FBI, and every single FBI director in the bureau's history), concern over appearing political trumping concern over enforcing the law, and, well, a number of other things.

Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by AnimalMuppet on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @03:35PM (#45737878)
One I wonder about but cannot prove: I wonder if the Justice Department wanted the prosecutions to wait until 2024, so that they would tar Trump during the campaign. If so, they were well-served for that bit of trying to put a thumb on the electoral scales. Trump was able to delay the cases until after the election. If they had begun a year earlier, we might be living in a very different world.
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by cosmicgadget on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @04:12PM (#45738473)
It would be insanely on-brand for the dems to do this and they would deserve this outcome. But we don't.
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by jayd16 on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @01:55PM (#45736334)
Why would losing an election mean you were wrong?
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by potato3732842 on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @01:15PM (#45735734)
Speaking of Mission Accomplished and 9/11, I recently watched Tucker Carlson's 9/11 series. I was expecting garbage but it actually did an amazingly good job building off of Fahrenheit 9/11 using the stuff that's come out in the 20yr since. If you take a step back the contrast does a really does a good job illustrating how just by sprinkling bullshit into the data the state, the media, etc, can do a sufficiently good job keeping people from connecting the dots or knowing what questions they ought to be asking.

Moore knew something stunk, but he was groping around in the dark in a totally different political climate less receptive to questioning authority.

Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by tremon on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @01:56PM (#45736350)
What's the intention behind your second paragraph? It seems to suggest that the current political climate is more receptive to questioning authority?
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by cosmicgadget on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @02:31PM (#45736852)
Mueller report unfortunately got way too little coverage.
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by mossTechnician on Tuesday October 28, 2025 @11:40PM (#45742358)
I would love a link to this story, if you have it.
Re:Texas Attorney General sues Tylenol makers over autism cl... by red-iron-pine on Wednesday October 29, 2025 @11:14AM (#45747896)
TikTok and social media exist to do that, writ large.

This is just a way to jam up the courts, but make no mistake -- Big Tech is allowing it to happen.