Fedora Kinoite https://fedoraproject.org/atomic-desktops/kinoite/

I really do think that immutable distros are the future especially if you want something that don’t break. And imo KDE is arguably the best DE right now, that is if you believe DEs should follow the WinNT era UX principles.

But there is a version with GNOME too or Cosmic

https://fedoraproject.org/atomic-desktops/silverblue/

https://fedoraproject.org/atomic-desktops/cosmic/

Isn't the state (apps' data in this case) the biggest problem with updates of any kind? State can't be immutable and is the easiest to break.

I can certainly see how containerizing apps and using "layered" FS solves a class of problems, but I highly doubt this alone would be incentive enough for the major OSes to go that way. I do agree it would be neat to see such developments, though.

Been rocking Kinoite for 2 years now - several major Fedora release upgrades, and zero breakage. I do weird stuff in my "pet" containers (using distrobox), and I love how my base system remains indestructible no matter how much I goof around.

Immutable is indeed the future. The moment a user installs something on a traditional mutable OS, it's configuration/environment drifts from the "base", making any system update or application install a potential conflict. After you install something on a traditional mutable OS, there's often no way to get back to the base without a OS reinstall (programs don't clean up after themselves, they change system settings, environment, more/worse).

Immutable operating systems solve this by having an immutable base image. Everyone running, for instance, Kinoite 42.20251011.0 all have exactly the same base. Users then can "layer" applications on top of the base image, sort of like a dockerfile. If something breaks, you just remove that application (layer) and it's like it never happened. Everyone having the same exact base image also means updates can be much more thoroughly tested, and confidently rolled-out to users.

Note, "Immutable" doesn't mean you can't save files or install things - it just means you cannot mutate the base OS image. There's always a "known good configuration" to go back to.

You're also encouraged to use "pet" containers for things like development - where you will install all sorts of weird system packages, libraries, tools, etc. without fear of polluting or breaking your system.

An immutable system + pet containers means your system will always be stable. Really neat.

That sounds great. How well does the base OS + "pet" containers work with all the crazy dependencies you need to do modern ML work, e.g. some exact combination of nvidia drivers + CUDA + torch + other random stuff? That's the pain point I'd be motivated enough to solve that I'd switch distros.

Your "pet" containers basically become your traditional OS, in a way. They use filesystem overlays, so your container can see all of the files on your system, plus it's own layered files, ie. each container has it's own "view" of the filesystem.

You can install anything inside your "pet" containers that you would normally install on your actual system. The container keeps everything tidy and self-contained. I have a container for development, another for music/DAW, another for certain games that needed weird deps.

Fedora Kinoite/Silverblue come with `Toolbx`[1] preinstalled, but I found `distrobox`[2] to be more flexible for my needs. I layered distrobox onto my base image, and it just works.

Many GUI apps are available via Flatpaks, and can be installed directly or via the Software Center. You can enable Flathub[3] as a source, so there's a ton of available software, including Steam, Chrome, Firefox, Discord, Spotify and more. Flatpaks are also sandboxed and self-contained, so they can't pollute/break your system either.

[1] https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-silverblue/toolb...

[2] https://distrobox.it/

[3] https://flathub.org/en

nvidia drivers are annoying since Fedora doesn’t distribute them. But once installed it works well enough.

Thanks! I do love KDE, it's my daily driver.

Exit: OK immutable looks really interesting, thank you.

Immutable is promising and Kinoite great but just heads up that since it's Fedora based you still have their major-release-upgrade cycle to follow.

There are rolling immutable/atomic distros but Kinoute is not one.

FWIW, Kinoite will auto-update itself (the base image gets an update nearly every day).

While Fedora technically isn't a rolling release distro, it is very "bleeding edge" and it's major release cycle is quite frequent. With the Atomic (Immutable) flavors, major releases are an easy upgrade - just click the "Upgrade" button then reboot without fear of anything breaking.

I’ve been daily driving Linux Mint for about 4 years. It’s usable and stable with standard software packages and can also be tweaked in the Linux way if you so need it.

Another person mentioned Ubuntu if coming from Mac. I haven’t considered it before but they’re probably right.

I was using Mac at home, but Windows at work. So moving to Mint was easy.

Ubuntu was OK on high performance hardware but when they introduced snaps nothing worked so I moved to Mint.

HTH

Hm that's interesting as an alternative to Ubuntu, thanks!

Also recommend Mint, but it's not a rolling release like OP asked.

My two recommendations would be openSUSE Tumbleweed or EndeavourOS. In particular Tumbleweed is underappreciated around here I think.

BTW, what makes you look for rolling-release distro specifically?

Ubuntu and pop are not rolling release. Neither is Fedora.

Basically my dad never upgrades his computer, I have automatic updates on but OS upgrades aren't done automatically, so I wanted rolling release to get past that. What's the issue with rolling release?

Makes sense since there won't be any release-upgrade process every 6/12/24/whatever months. You'll still have obviously have updates though.

Asking since none of the examples you were considering are actually rolling, it wasn't clear what you're after.

Yes but those updates can be automated, right? I'm just trying to avoid the release update.

Sure and sounds reasonable. Then you will have to force reboots Windows style - having the same old kernel running for months or years on an online desktop can be hazardous if he never shuts it down.

Are you sure he wants a rolling release?

If so, then Manjaro.

If not, I always say:

From Windows? > Mint.

From MacOS? > Ubuntu.

The answer is almost always one of those two for non-technical people.

Basically he doesn't bother updating his computer, so I want something that will auto-update to fairly modern versions, that's why I mentioned stability as a requirement.

What's wrong with rolling release?

I would say rather "are regular updates really necessary"? Personally, I'm not sure they are (for most users). To paraphrase Debian, there's a lot of value in stability.

Manjaro is a mess. EndeavourOS is similar (both are Arch derivatives) but less breaky and something I'd recommend more.

I put Zorin OS on my dads old laptop 5 years ago and I think the only time I got a question was when someone setting up his new internet was digging through network settings but hadnt used any Linux distro before. Even then it was a 5 min call. Its a very Windows-like experience and I've noticed most parents really just write an email, browse the web and maybe consume media. All of those can occur in a browser.

Rolling release & stable are mutually exclusive…

GP probably means stable in the sense of "not buggy" as opposed to "won't change".

Yes, exactly. A lag of a few months is fine if it means the software doesn't have huge bugs.

But more change always leads to more bugs, because more new bugs are introduced, and there is less time to fix them.

Fedora isn't a rolling release but updates pretty often.

openSUSE Tumbleweed sounds like it would fit the bill. It's both rolling and has the benefit of having btrfs/snapper support baked in by default, so it's super easy to roll back anything if it breaks.

Interesting, thank you, though I'm a bit wary of btrfs.

I was going to make the same recommendation.

If he comes with such requirements then I'd stick with LTS releases as system base and flatpak programs to keep stuff updated frequently. And if he wants a familiar to Windows environment then Zorin would do the trick out of the box.