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Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by Mistletoe on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:02AM (#45221668)
Maybe in 2028 a presidential candidate can run with removing the Patriot Act as one of their campaign points. I suspect the world will be very different then. The America I knew, remembered, and loved started dying with the passage of the Patriot Act.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by Xelbair on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:08AM (#45221720)
Given how patriot act survived many terms of both republicans and democrats i highly doubt it.

It is a extremely convenient act for whoever is in power.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by mothballed on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:50AM (#45222156)
There needs to be something like the federal equivalent of a referendum. I think with that, it would be possible to get rid of the patriot act and legalize weed, both of which seem to have popular support but zero chance of majority of representatives backing because they don't want to be liable for the worst-case corner-cases in the aftermath.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by runako on Friday September 12, 2025 @10:37AM (#45222626)
We are constantly voting in primaries and general elections. We vote in federal elections every two years, state elections generally at least as frequently, though often not in federal election year. We vote for mayor and city council and insurance commissioner and Secretary of State and county commission.

We don't need a referendum, we just need to choose representation that wants the same things we want. (Alternate formation: Americans do not want these things as much as some of us think they do.)

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by mothballed on Friday September 12, 2025 @10:43AM (#45222684)
By referendum I meant to be able to vote directly on a specific law.

If you look at how weed was legalized, it required a referendum in many (most?) states because no representative wants to be the guy that has his face plastered everywhere when some kid dies after he smokes some legal weed and smashes into a pole, even if most his constituents wanted the policy.

Representatives generally have to be risk averse to get to the point they can even represent people on issues. This means they are extremely reluctant to vote for anything that might come back to bite them somehow, even if it is popular.

>Alternate formation: Americans do not want these things as much as some of us think they do

There is extremely overwhelming evidence that a supermajority of americans have wanted medical marijuana to be federally legal for many years. And overwhelming evidence the representatives have not been successfully bringing that forward.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by runako on Friday September 12, 2025 @12:00PM (#45223595)
Absolutely.

The catch is that when voters vote at all levels, they express by their choices that e.g. marijuana legalization is not a high priority. So voters might well vote to legalize if given that standalone choice, but it's not obvious to me that it's a good idea to insulate representatives from their inaction.

> no representative wants to be the guy

So on this, a number of states arrived at some level of legalization exactly this way. Legalization laws were signed by governors as diverse politically as Kay Ivey in Alabama and Tim Walz in Minnesota.

There's no statutory reason that voters in e.g. South Carolina cannot choose representation as amenable to legalization as Beshear in Kentucky or Reeves in Mississippi. Referenda also are subject to faithful implementation by representatives, so attempting to side-step the choice of representatives is not necessarily going to be fruitful.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by mrguyorama on Friday September 12, 2025 @12:05PM (#45223658)
>If you look at how weed was legalized, it required a referendum

It only required a referendum in some states because most US states are controlled by Republican governors and legislatures who openly defy what their own constituents want without fear of being voted out, because republicans vote republican no matter what. Republican voters will say "I want to legalize weed", their elected representative spouts literal DARE propaganda about weed that republican voters KNOW is false since they literally smoke weed (illegally, how about that), but they STILL re-elect those politicians, because it's more important to not have a democrat in office than to actually get what you democratically voted for.

Here in Maine, we passed a referendum to legalize weed. It passed. Lepage spent the next 4 years of his Governor term refusing to implement it, entirely. Like he just criminally defied the will of the public. As soon as Mills took office, the state built up a framework for recreational weed and IMO it's pretty good compared to other states, which is probably why we have literal Chinese gangs growing illegal weed all over the state :/

You see the same thing in every Republican state that allows citizen referendums. The public passes a referendum, and the republican politicians of the state just utterly defy it, and they do not get voted out

Democrat politicians respect citizen referendums, even when they are stupid and against democrat policies, like in California where Uber is not an employer because that's how the people voted.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by mothballed on Friday September 12, 2025 @12:24PM (#45223812)
The federal government is currently controlled by Republicans, so it seems relevant regardless of whether you think they should be in power or not, no?
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by xienze on Friday September 12, 2025 @02:14PM (#45224917)
> Democrat politicians respect citizen referendums, even when they are stupid and against democrat policies, like in California where Uber is not an employer because that's how the people voted.

LOL what, apparently you forgot about Proposition 187, which California voters voted "yes" on, got tied up in the courts, and then when a Democrat governor came into power he let the appeals die.

Proposition 8: voters voted to ban gay marriage, courts said "nah we're not going to do that." Judges aren't technically politicians but that line is a little blurry at times.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by ksenzee on Friday September 12, 2025 @11:07AM (#45222943)
The first-past-the-post system, combined with our current primary system, is set up such that most Americans do not get the representation they actually want, and Congress is made up of extremists. We don’t have the Congress we have because most Americans actually want it that way.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by JumpCrisscross on Friday September 12, 2025 @11:21AM (#45223095)
> a presidential candidate can run with removing the Patriot Act as one of their campaign points

I've worked on privacy regulation. This would not get votes. The unfortunate fact is that the people most passionate about these issues are also tremendously lazy or extremely nihilistic. (Maybe it comes with the territory of not trusting institutions.)

Either way, privacy advocates can rarely muster even a dozen calls to electeds, let alone credibly threaten backing a primary opponent. The reason SOPA/PIPA worked is it animated a group of tech advocates beyond those with ideological opposition to surveillance.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by conception on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:06AM (#45221711)
Can you imagine the world today if Bernie had won?
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by garciasn on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:16AM (#45221792)
An interesting what-if scenario; but, let's assume Sanders won and all else remained largely the same as it has:

Unless the Sanders Administration had a very favorable or majority Democrat Congress aligned with his progressive wing, many proposals would be outright blocked or heavily compromised. Knowing our limitation that everything else has stayed largely the same as history since, this wouldn't be the case. The hypothetical administration's attempts at sweeping reforms, such as healthcare and climate regulation, would very likely be significantly curtailed or overturned by courts or constrained by constitutional limits on separation. The GOP, even though they actively outspend Democrats when in power, obstruct via financial limits each and every Democratic-led effort while crowing about expansion of debt incursion; as such, spending on Bernie's proposed initiatives would raise concerns about deficits, inflation, and taxation. Even with tax increases, there would be pushback from wealthy individuals, corporations, and lobbyists.

Basically, nothing would change in any significant way except, perhaps, the SCOTUS would not be outright overturning DECADES of 'settled law' in favor of an absurd view of the world as it was hundreds of years ago.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by smallmancontrov on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:24AM (#45221873)
Yes. There are a few moments when Biden floated something that sounded like a promise made to Bernie and it got laughed out of congress by both sides of the aisle. The "capital gains income is income" proposal is probably the cleanest example. There would have been more of that and not a lot done. To make real change, you need congress on board and possibly the courts too.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by ta1243 on Friday September 12, 2025 @11:50AM (#45223467)
> Unless the Sanders Administration had a very favorable or majority Democrat Congress aligned with his progressive wing, many proposals would be outright blocked or heavily compromised

This is a feature, and why Trump's second term is so different to his first, or Bidens, or Obamas, or Bush, or Nixon. You'd probably have to go back to FDR for such sweeping changes to the US state.

Trumps first term was overturning norms in behavior, but not overturning the way the entire governing system works, all four estates.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by bluGill on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:14AM (#45221776)
Many people will imagine things. However history constantly suggests that most of those are very different from the reality that results.

The good news is when your candidate loses you don't find out the evil they really do and you can say it is not your fault. The bad news is you don't find out what is bad about the things you think are good.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by bluSCALE4 on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:27AM (#45221896)
Sanders is gutless and acts like the Democrats are the greater of the two evils even as they silenced him and prevented from being their front runner.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by Aunche on Friday September 12, 2025 @10:01AM (#45222262)
Just because a politician does the most virtue signaling towards the left doesn't mean that they'll produce the most progressive results. Bernie has a very poor track record of coalition building. He was getting into fights with Manchin even though he was needed as the 50th vote for the American Rescue Plan and Inflation Reduction Act.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by palmfacehn on Friday September 12, 2025 @10:57AM (#45222834)
He's never been a champion of financial freedom on an individual basis. He's consistently advocated for deeper and more intrusive regulations on cryptocurrencies.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by PleasureBot on Friday September 12, 2025 @10:59AM (#45222855)
Probably very similar unfortunately. The current state of US politics is that any policy further than center or maybe slightly left of center has a snowball's chance in hell of making it through Congress. The best case scenarios is probably what Biden accomplished: temporarily pausing the slide into far-right authoritarianism. Maybe he's able to pass some extremely watered down version of health care reform or tax reform but that seems unlikely. Certainly nothing like true progressive platform he ran on is possible in the US right now.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by dboreham on Friday September 12, 2025 @11:22AM (#45223109)
I'm guessing similar to the Obama administration. E.g. he couldn't get proper healthcare reform passed.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by bongodongobob on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:38AM (#45222020)
Yes, it would have been 4 years of zero progress because he would have been stonewalled by both parties.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by AngryData on Friday September 12, 2025 @11:20AM (#45223089)
That still sounds like a dream compared to everything else we have seen done.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by disgruntledphd2 on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:44AM (#45222082)
I think the big difference would have been around Covid. The Trump administration really, really dropped the ball there, and a potential Sanders administration might have done better (i.e. invested money in preventing it from getting out of Asia, as was done for SARS 1).

Now, that might not have worked but anything might have had a pretty large impact on global/US deaths.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by blindriver on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:34AM (#45221971)
He was sabotaged by the DNC. Even Elizabeth Warren said that the nomination process was rigged by the DNC. Absolute corruption and the world would absolutely be a different place.

But his support of ratcheting up the Ukraine war disappointed profoundly. That’s not the Bernie I would have voted for.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by ActorNightly on Friday September 12, 2025 @11:04AM (#45222906)
That has been disproven. He ran again in primaries during 2020 and did horribly there. The progressives are just not popular, and they don't really do much to work with the rest of the Democrats. Unlike Republicans, where the party forerunner basically gets unilateral support from everyone Republican including those he personally insulted or harmed.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by DanHulton on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:41AM (#45222051)
Alternatively, it could have been over long ago with a lot less loss of life, if Ukraine had been supported more full-throatedly, instead of allowing to drag on as it has.

Sometimes you gotta rip that bandaid off.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by throawaywpg on Friday September 12, 2025 @11:59AM (#45223584)
supporting Ukraine has always been in America's interests. How embarassing it must be for Trump to be publicly humiliated by Putin over a cease fire.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by CamperBob2 on Friday September 12, 2025 @06:21PM (#45227410)
Sanders is old enough to remember what appeasement leads to, that's all.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by mothballed on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:02AM (#45221674)
Ron Paul already did that. Not very popular.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by thesuitonym on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:08AM (#45221718)
There are many reasons Ron Paul was not very popular.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by aleatorianator on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:07AM (#45221714)
popular means whatever Hollywood decided to like

this is the end of celebrity culture at the hands of social media.

monarchies are the central core of celebrity cultism, look at France today; surrounded by the Monarchies and up in flames.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by AlecSchueler on Friday September 12, 2025 @10:23AM (#45222490)
It's called the patriot act, anyone fighting it is instantly framed as anti-American.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by n0n0n4t0r on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:03AM (#45221683)
Given how the democracy is attacked, I'm not sure there will be an election in 2028
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by owlbite on Friday September 12, 2025 @11:48AM (#45223454)
There will almost certainly be an election in 2028. The degree to which it will be rigged through gerrymandering, voter intimidation, voter suppression and/or blatant cheating is a different question.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by krapp on Friday September 12, 2025 @11:57AM (#45223557)
The answer is "as much as legal, and maybe a little more" as with all American elections.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by ta1243 on Friday September 12, 2025 @11:52AM (#45223493)
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by Consultant32452 on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:13AM (#45221761)
One less thing to worry about
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by dzonga on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:12AM (#45221756)
you don't make improvements to a house, adorn it with gold all over, make 200m improvements if you have the intention of leaving.

behaviour says more than words

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by hamdingers on Friday September 12, 2025 @10:57AM (#45222836)
Every president remodels and redecorates the White House, often to a much greater degree. The consternation over it is an intentional distraction.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by dboreham on Friday September 12, 2025 @11:23AM (#45223126)
It's done as an intentional distraction. The guy is a top class troll after all.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by ptaffs on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:21AM (#45221839)
i think the person you are talking about doesn't treat houses like most people, i mean he (and his kind) lives for short term gratification and will move on to another house and decorate that with gold.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by potato3732842 on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:30AM (#45221932)
>he (and his kind) lives for short term gratification and will move on to another house and decorate that with gold.

Exactly. It's a social norm among that class of society

When a Koch, or a Scwab, or the CEO of some mega-corp buys a property on Martha's Vineyard, or the Hamptons, or Vail or overlooking Tahoe or whatever, with intent to actually spend even the scantest amount of time there themselves they engage in absurd unnecessary renovations. That's just how they do things. There is an occasional exception for those in that group who have "found meaning" in some other avenue for lighting money on fire.

Edit: You can thank me later for implicitly telling you where the best construction dumpsters are.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by ta1243 on Friday September 12, 2025 @11:52AM (#45223500)
You don't adorn it with gold if you have taste.

Trump is not going to live much longer than 2028 anyway.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by krapp on Friday September 12, 2025 @12:18PM (#45223761)
I think he had a stroke at the 9/11 ceremony and no one is talking about it yet.

And there was definitely some weirdness with his hand, the absence that convinced people he was dead, some odd rumors about his shirt sleeve and suit implying he was hiding medical devices or some kind of injury, an "AI" glitch in a recent video which may have been debunked, and his obvious mental and emotional degradation when confronted with the Epstein stuff.

I am absolutely convinced Trump is only being kept alive by ritual blood sacrifice or that he's being puppeted by Grok through a Neuralink or something.

Biden got taken down by the the "crippling senile dementia" meme because it's only a problem when it's Democrats, but Trump seems worse off than Biden ever was. The bastard will probably live another thirty years though, somehow.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by ta1243 on Friday September 12, 2025 @01:29PM (#45224496)
Everyone is talking about it.

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/photos-trumps-drooping-face-9-11-p...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/trump-sparks-health-fe...

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/glob...

> Biden got taken down by the the "crippling senile dementia" meme because it's only a problem when it's Democrats

Democrats felt both Biden and Trump were far too old and senile to be in charge. And they were right.

The problem is that Republicans only felt it was Biden.

Remember when having a "consensual" blowjob from an intern was almost enough to get a president fired? Remember when presidents resigned when the public found out they were involved in organising a break-in?

That world has long gone, social media saw to that.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by EFreethought on Friday September 12, 2025 @05:00PM (#45226720)
> Everyone is talking about it.

And they are talking about it very strongly.

[dead]
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by LightBug1 on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:34AM (#45221977)
Just !
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by moi2388 on Friday September 12, 2025 @11:03AM (#45222895)
Want to bet 10k? You’re literally making claims without any basis. He left last time, he will leave again, if he even makes it to the end of his term
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF on Friday September 12, 2025 @01:50PM (#45224688)
> without any basis

This is his second, ostensibly last, term, meaning he will have an uphill battle at best to convince the public that he should get another term for some bullshit reason. His last term ended with him obviously trying to prevent the next guy from taking over. He obviously wants to be in power. It's disingenuous to say there is no basis. Whether it's likely is another matter but this is intellectually dishonest.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by moi2388 on Monday September 15, 2025 @01:49AM (#45246504)
Every president wants to be in power, or they never would have ran.

Fact is you’re fear mongering for no reason. Last time he also just left. There are zero cases of a president staying in office after their terms.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by LightBug1 on Monday September 15, 2025 @05:01AM (#45247596)
If you're willing - how old are you? Where are you from? What do you do?

I'm just really curious how you get to a stage in life firing off this kind, sorry, naive view.

The American rule book has well and truly been ripped up and burned ... you just can't seem to see the smouldering embers at your feet ...

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by moi2388 on Tuesday September 16, 2025 @10:19AM (#45262588)
I’m curious how you get to a stage in life where you just make up crisis, when all previous cases show this is simply not happening.

He already left once before. I don’t understand how this is news to you.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by LightBug1 on Thursday September 18, 2025 @06:39AM (#45287994)
Your use of the word "left" is doing some heavy lifting ... that's some decent gaslighting you've got going on there ...

You must have a short memory. I assume that's intentional. My condolences as to where you've ended up in life. Bye.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by black6 on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:14AM (#45221777)
I might turn out to vote if there was a candidate whose sole platform plank was to repeal as many existing laws as possible.
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by GLdRH on Friday September 12, 2025 @11:12AM (#45223002)
any democratic candidate?
Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by genewitch on Friday September 12, 2025 @12:08PM (#45223684)
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/report-cards/2022

I'm not sure that democrats enact/write less laws. If they don't enact (or write) less laws, i cannot see how the aggregate number of laws reduces.

This, apparently, is a "hard" statistical (research) problem, even though i've seen reporting on this exact subject, along the lines of "number of lines in bills written by each party" or similar. but the top 2 are democrats. I think "enacted" is a different metric, but i'm still pretty certain that democrats lead on "enacted" legislation, at least in the last 25 years.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by ActorNightly on Friday September 12, 2025 @11:01AM (#45222877)
1) If Trump somehow survives till 2028, there aren't gonna be elections in 2028 (or at least fare ones, if Democratic candidate wins Trump is gonna declare national emergency on suspect of voter fraud). TBD if Vance and the other crazies are in the same boat.

2) America started dying way before when we thought things like being anti woke was more important than policy.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by ivape on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:54AM (#45222203)
No candidate can do that. The children were raised to be racist and ignorant. That basically means you are going to deal with poorly raised feral racist and entitled children. You aren’t going to rehabilitate that in your lifetime, the childhoods are fucked up. Maybe in 30-40 years these people will have a come to Jesus moment, but we don’t have a malleable national moral character to appeal to helpful sensibilities given how poorly the prior generation failed at raising proper children with good moral character.

Basically, a good portion of White America are gone cases. You won’t be able to explain to gone cases anything. That’s the reality of America.

Re:The Treasury Is Expanding the Patriot Act to Attack Bitco... by Consultant32452 on Friday September 12, 2025 @09:11AM (#45221754)
the average man does not want to be free. he simply wants to be safe. ~H.L. Mencken

The bad guys will say you only need privacy if you’re guilty and the plebs will lap it up