How is driving not emotionally taxing the exact same way? Driving with my kids is fucking terrifying. I have 2 under 6, and I have to lock them into these giant car seats to keep them safe (to be clear I like modern car seats, their designs just remind me how vulnerable kids are). Every time I go through a intersection I worry what happens if someone runs the red and smashes into our side.

I no longer speed when I drive because I want the kids to be safe and the insane rage other drivers send our way because I'm going 40 km/hr on a 40 km/hr road. I've had driver try to force us off the road, tail gate us hard, pass us across double yellow lines, scream at us.

Driving is exhausting.

And when they get a bit older you need to stay in the house all day trying to keep them off the worst parts of the Internet because cars have completely destroyed kids freedom

>How is driving not emotionally taxing the exact same way? Driving with my kids is fucking terrifying. I have 2 under 6

Wait until those kids are old enough to drive themselves. That's when the real terror kicks in.

Cars certainly are dangerous, but the reality of commuting is a lot of it is done at very low speeds. Car wrecks are generally simply expensive, rather than dangerous.

The difference is that when driving, your safety is at least somewhat in your control. Worried about getting t-boned at an intersection? You look before you go.

When you consider the amount of driving that goes on in America, cars are shockingly safe. I saw a number that was like 1.1 fatalities per 100 million miles driven, but something like 1,000 accidents per 100 million miles.

(Okay, so I did a search, and Google's AI says 1.11 for the US, and average of 0.92 for high-income countries. And apparently the people in Hungary are maniacs, because they're at 2.05)

(edit to add: Google AI also says that NYT found 1.2 violent crimes for every million subway rides. 6 million people ride the subway every day, so there's a point of comparison.)

In any event, I don't want to drive. I'd rather hop on a train or light rail or anything else. But that is not a choice that is available to me unless I start making seven figures a year so that money can insulate my family.

I don't know where the AI summary is getting the numbers from, but there was an article recently in the front page with more statistics about this: https://ourworldindata.org/britain-safest-roads-history.

When you compare driving to almost every other form of transportation it is wildly dangerous. https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/home-and-community/safety-topics...

"Passenger vehicles are by far the most dangerous motorized transportation option compared. Over the last 10 years, passenger vehicle death rate per 100,000,000 passenger miles was over 60 times higher than for buses, 20 times higher than for passenger trains, and 1,200 times higher than for scheduled airlines. Other comparisons are possible based on passenger trips, vehicle miles, or vehicle trips, but passenger miles is the most commonly used basis for comparing the safety of various modes of travel."

>Your safety is at least somewhat in your control Have you ever driven on roads? What control do I have that someone reading their phone instead of looking where their giant SUV is going while speeding

Yes, vehicles driven by amateurs are more dangerous than high-capacity vehicles with professional drivers/pilots. People talk about the high number of fatalities as if you have to drive over the scattered dead every day like gruesome speed bumps.

I just think that, considering the number of miles driven in the US and the poor quality of your average driver, the number of deaths is surprisingly low. This is probably at least partially due to the safety regulations that have made cars a helluva lot less of a killbox than they used to be.

If you don't recognize that while driving you have at least some control over your own safety I don't know what to say. Total control? Of course not. Can you not speed, not read HN while eating a burger, not blow through traffic lights without looking? Of course you can.

It would be like arguing against buses because a bus driver can wig out and drive through a cliffside guardrail and there's nothing you can do about it.

>Can you not speed, not read HN while eating a burger, not blow through traffic lights without looking? Of course you can.

Seems like a lot of people in here would do those things and then when it goes poorly blame the car. It's basically the "stick in spokes" meme.

>It would be like arguing against buses because a bus driver can wig out and drive through a cliffside guardrail and there's nothing you can do about it.

Now that you mention it I'm pretty sure a Peter Pan bus did exactly that around here a few years back (I'm gonna go google it, find out that it was in like 2003 and feel old). Driver got confused which overpass ramp he was on and full sent it thinking there was a merge at the top he needed to be up to speed for when instead there was a sharp curve. But yeah, that behavior is def not the norm.

as far as i know, e-bikes (does that count as a motorized vehicle?) are more dangerous per kilometer traveled (especially if the infrastructure is lacking and not to a small part due to predation from cars, but most of the bike accidents happen without a second party).

compared to driving, riding a bicycle is very healthy so the net effect for bicycling is still positive.

> Every time I go through an intersection I worry what happens if someone runs the red and smashes into our side.

Something like this is a lot more rare than harassment on public transit. And not exactly avoidable. So it isn’t worth thinking about. But on public transit you have to maintain constant vigilance just to avoid the many bad situations that could come your way. You’re very exposed and vulnerable. The crime rates on transit are after everyone puts in the effort to avoid being a victim.

Two thoughts...

Is it actually true that car accidents are far more rare than harassment on the subway? I don't take public transit enough to comment (there is none here).

Car accidents have a much higher likelihood of maiming or killing me. Even if they're more rare, I would posit (but don't have numbers) that the total cost to society (including property damage) is MUCH higher.

Data point: I've been in two car wrecks. Once as a passenger where the driver spun it on the Mass Pike to 128 ramp, and once when I got T-boned on my way home from having my car serviced. That was my favorite car. Nobody's ever bothered me on public transport. Not on the MBTA, not on MBTA, Metro North, or LIRR commuter rail, not on Amtrak to New York, not on the New York public transit systems.

I've been in two accidents and been in the car where a fight broke out on the red line twice.

And I've been driving a hell of a lot more than the years I rode the subway....

> I've been in two accidents and been in the car where a fight broke out on the red line twice.

Were you an active participant in the fights?

If not, wouldn't the fair comparison be a count of how many car crashes you have driven past?

>Were you an active participant in the fights?

I wasn't an "active participant" in the accidents either. Both were minor rear endings.

It's not just about crashes. It's also about close calls (in both directions, being hit and hitting others), people driving while checking their phones, rude drivers: tailgaters, honkers, high beamers, etc. The list is endless.

Oh, and my God, the mind numbing boredom.

Because if you don't suck your have bad interactions monthly or less and when you do have them they're pretty easy to explain away in a way that doesn't involve the other guy having malice or whatever.

Maybe try going whatever speed the rest of the traffic is going. Less ire will be directed at you if you're not everyone's problem point.

I can make most of the same arguments about driving.

People run red lights, they speed, they swerve, they get in fender-benders and flee, they honk, they smoke weed and drink vodka while they drive. All illegal, all common occurrences. And I live in a wealthy, safe suburb.

When I lived in a pretty wealthy suburb some of the most dangerous people around were those driving home from the bar.

I’m much more worried about my teenager driving than I am him taking public transport.

I take my kids on the NYC subway very often. It isn't emotionally taxing because the vast, vast majority of journeys encounter no issues at all. What you're describing is a self inflicted state of mind.

I don't drive as often but I've run into far more potentially dangerous situations driving on the highway with my kids than I have on the subway.