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Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by coder543 on Friday August 29, 2025 @01:54PM (#45067311)
Qwen3-Coder-480B hosted by Cerebras is $2/Mtok (both input and output) through OpenRouter.

OpenRouter claims Cerebras is providing at least 2000 tokens per second, which would be around 10x as fast, and the feedback I'm seeing from independent benchmarks indicates that Qwen3-Coder-480B is a better model.

Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by sdesol on Friday August 29, 2025 @02:20PM (#45067631)
As a bit of a side note, I want to like Cerebras, but using any of the models through OpenRouter that uses them has lead to, too many throttling responses. Like you can't seem to make a few calls per minute. I'm not sure if Cerebras is throttling OpenRouter or if they are throttling everybody.

If somebody from Cerebras is reading this, are you having capacity issues?

Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by gompertz on Friday August 29, 2025 @03:20PM (#45068267)
You can get your own key with cerebras and then use it in openrouter. Its a little hidden, but for each provider you can explicitly provide your own key. Then it won't be throttled.
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by omneity on Saturday August 30, 2025 @01:26PM (#45076415)
Why would you go through openrouter in this case?
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by theshrike79 on Saturday August 30, 2025 @01:56PM (#45076684)
Easier to switch models
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by scottyeager on Saturday August 30, 2025 @02:11PM (#45076815)
Haven't seen any issues like this while using a key from their subscription plan: https://www.cerebras.ai/blog/introducing-cerebras-code
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by dockercompost on Saturday August 30, 2025 @03:41PM (#45077418)
I want to get one of those plans so bad (to replace my claude max sub) but they're always "temporarily sold out" every time I check :(
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by stocksinsmocks on Friday August 29, 2025 @02:32PM (#45067760)
There is a national superset of “NIH” bias that I think will impede adoption of Chinese-origin models for the foreseeable future. That’s a shame because by many objective metrics they’re a better value.
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by dlachausse on Friday August 29, 2025 @03:13PM (#45068189)
In my case it's not NIH, but rather that I don't trust or wish to support my nation's largest geopolitical adversary.
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by bigyabai on Friday August 29, 2025 @07:56PM (#45070723)
Your loss. Qwen3 A3B replaced ChatGPT for me entirely, it's hard for me to imagine going back using remote models when I can load finetuned and uncensored models at-will.

Maybe you'd find consolation in using Apple or Nvidia-designed hardware for inference on these Chinese models? Sure, the hardware you own was also built by your "nation's largest geopolitical adversary" but that hasn't seemed to bother you much.

Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by dlachausse on Friday August 29, 2025 @10:27PM (#45071415)
[flagged]
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by acoustics on Friday August 29, 2025 @11:11PM (#45071604)
> Do they recognize the existence of Taiwan as an independent nation?

<0.5% of humanity lives in a country that recognizes Taiwan, I'm not sure what answer you expect from a chatbot.

Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by bigyabai on Friday August 29, 2025 @10:36PM (#45071464)
Go interrogate it for yourself: https://huggingface.co/huihui-ai/Huihui-Qwen3-30B-A3B-Instru...

In my experience, abliterated models will typically respond to any of those questions without hestitation. Here's a sample of a response to your last question:

  The resemblance between Chinese President **Xi Jinping** and the beloved cartoon character **Winnie the Pooh** is both visually striking and widely observed—so much so that it has become a cultural phenomenon. Here’s why Xi Jinping *looks* like Winnie the Pooh:

  ###  **1. Facial Features: A Perfect Match**
  | Feature | Winnie the Pooh | Xi Jinping | [...]
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by wickedsight on Saturday August 30, 2025 @07:18AM (#45073708)
How did it replace ChatGPT for you? I'm running Qwen3 Coder locally and in no way does it compare to ChatGPT. In agentic workflows it fails almost every time. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I'm falling back to OpenAI all the time.
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by evilduck on Saturday August 30, 2025 @12:33PM (#45075932)
It feels to me like it could replace ChatGPT 3.5 from the perspective of comparing it to their web chat interface if you were just asking about programming things two years ago, but the world moved on and you can do a lot more than just talk with a model and copy paste code now.

Having Qwen3 Coder's A3B available for chat oriented coding conversations is indeed amazing for what it is and for being local and free but I also struggled to get useful agentic tools to reliably work with it (a fair number of tool calls fail or start looping, even with correct and advised settings, and tried using Cline, Roo, Continue and their own Qwen Code CLI). Even when I do get it to work for a few tasks in a row I don't have the hardware to run at comparable speed or manage the massive context sizes as a hosted frontier model. And buying capable enough hardware costs about as much as many years of paying for top tier hosted models.

Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by mft_ on Friday August 29, 2025 @08:27PM (#45070873)
Genuine question: how does downloading an open-weight model (Qwen in this case) and running it either locally or via a third-party service benefit China?
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by tipsysquid on Friday August 29, 2025 @10:00PM (#45071290)
from an adversarial / defensive position: the model weights and training data were groomed and known; therefore, the output is potentially predictable. this could be an advantage to the nationstate above the corpo
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by AnonymousPlanet on Saturday August 30, 2025 @03:01AM (#45072514)
This is also true for any US model from a European perspective.
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by rightbyte on Saturday August 30, 2025 @09:23AM (#45074447)
And for any US model from an US perspective. Why is assumed that states are aligned with them self like some sort of CivIII player being coherent and self contained...
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by throw10920 on Saturday August 30, 2025 @10:14AM (#45074866)
Genuine answer: the model has been trained by companies that are required by law to censor them to conform to PRC CCP party lines, including rejection of consensus reality such as Tiananmen Square[1].

Yes, the censorship for some topics currently doesn't appear to be any good, but it does exist, will absolutely get better (both harder to subvert and more subtle), and makes the models less trustworthy than those from countries (US, EU, Sweden, whatever) that don't have that same level of state control. (note that I'm not claiming that there's no state control or picking any specific other country)

That's the downside to the user. To loop that back to your question, the upside to China is soft power (the same kind that the US has been flushing away recently). It's pretty similar to TikTok - if you have an extremely popular thing that people spend hours a day on and start to filter their life through, and you can influence it, that's a huge amount of power - even if you don't make any money off of it.

Now, to be fair to the context of your question, there isn't nearly as much soft power you can get from a model that people use primarily for coding - that I'm less concerned about.

[1] https://www.tomsguide.com/ai/i-just-outsmarted-deepseeks-cen...

Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by criley2 on Saturday August 30, 2025 @01:00PM (#45076150)
As a counterpoint: Using a foreign model means the for-domestic-consumption censorship will not effect you much. Qwen is happy to talk about MAGA, slavery, the Holocaust, or any other "controversial" western topic.

However, American models (just like Chinese models) are heavily censored according to the society. ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, are all aggressively censored to meet western expectation.

So in essence, Chinese models should be less censored than western models for western topics.

Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by ulfw on Friday August 29, 2025 @10:21PM (#45071387)
"largest geopolitical adversary"

I can't believe Americans all are falling for propaganda like this. So Russia is all fine now huh. You know the country you literally had nuclear warheads pointed at for decades and decades and decades on end.

Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by girvo on Friday August 29, 2025 @10:49PM (#45071516)
Not that I care either way, but China is far larger in economy, military and population than Russia is. So "largest adversary" is correct, and it doesn't take away from the danger that Russia's government continues to pose (directly, in my extended family's case in eastern Ukraine)
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by dlachausse on Saturday August 30, 2025 @12:31AM (#45071933)
Russia is the successor state of a former failed superpower. China is a rising superpower with a large, advanced military and a strong industrial base.

There’s no comparison. China is a far greater threat to the West than Russia.

Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by ulfw on Saturday August 30, 2025 @03:19AM (#45072597)
What is it threatening to do to the US?

or is for you being able to threat a threat already? If so, why did American companies invest for decades into China so eagerly with US government support?

Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by dlachausse on Saturday August 30, 2025 @06:34AM (#45073535)
If they take Taiwan that would be very disruptive to the US and the rest of the world. They have made credible threats to do that.

How does Russia threaten the United States? They can’t even take over Ukraine.

Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by fauigerzigerk on Saturday August 30, 2025 @08:14AM (#45073965)
>How does Russia threaten the United States?

By supporting China and pointing nuclear warheads at the US?

Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by lern_too_spel on Saturday August 30, 2025 @10:36AM (#45075041)
By destabilizing Western democracies, which they have proven quite adept at. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by Paradigma11 on Saturday August 30, 2025 @12:58PM (#45076129)
Russia sees itself as a superpower and the only way to prove this to its population is by being in constant conflict with other perceived superpowers.
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by ulfw on Saturday August 30, 2025 @10:30PM (#45079815)
If you believe Russia is not at active cyber war with the west I got a bridge to Ukraine to sell to you
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by anticodon on Saturday August 30, 2025 @02:14AM (#45072313)
The fact is that China is one of the largest foreign USA debt holders makes it actually scarier than nuclear warheads.

If China would decide to sell US treasuries, it will be more devastating to the US economy than effect of 10 nuclear strikes.

Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by hollerith on Saturday August 30, 2025 @02:17AM (#45072326)
That is absurd!
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by honeybadger1 on Saturday August 30, 2025 @07:31AM (#45073772)
it's a fact?
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by fauigerzigerk on Saturday August 30, 2025 @08:27AM (#45074033)
The fact is that weapons kill people. Treasuries are just promises. China cannot dump treasures without hurting its own economoy at least as much as they are hurting the US.

They would be incinerating their own foreign exchange reserves just to cause a spike in US interest rates and/or inflation.

Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by honeybadger1 on Saturday August 30, 2025 @09:53AM (#45074707)
Neither Russia nor China has ever deployed nuclear weapons against civilian populations, a distinction held solely by the United States. Their reasons for restraint diverge significantly, rooted in distinct strategic and cultural priorities, yet China’s rising global influence positions it as a greater long-term threat to the United States than Russia, despite Russia’s more overt aggression.

Russia’s behavior, exemplified by the 2014 annexation of Crimea and the 2022 invasion of Ukraine, reflects an aggressive posture driven by a desire to counter NATO’s eastward expansion and maintain regional dominance. However, its economic challenges sanctions, energy export dependence, and a GDP of approximately $2.1 trillion in 2023 (World Bank) constrain its global reach, rendering it a struggling, though resilient, power. With the world’s largest nuclear arsenal, Russia’s restraint in nuclear use stems from a pragmatic focus on national survival. Its actions prioritize geopolitical relevance over a quixotic pursuit of Soviet-era glory, but its declining economic and demographic strength limits its capacity to challenge the United States on a global scale.

In contrast, China’s non-use of nuclear weapons aligns with its cultural and strategic emphasis on economic expansion over territorial conquest. Through initiatives like the Belt and Road Initiative, which has invested over $1.2 trillion globally since 2013, China has built a network of economic influence. Its military modernization, backed by a $292 billion defense budget in 2023 (SIPRI) and a nuclear arsenal projected to reach 1,000 warheads by 2030, complements this economic dominance. While China’s “no first use” nuclear policy, established in 1964, reflects a commitment to strategic stability, its assertive actions such as militarizing the South China Sea and pressuring Taiwan signal a willingness to use force to secure economic and territorial interests. Unlike Russia’s regionally focused aggression, China’s global economic leverage, technological advancements, and growing military capabilities pose a more systemic challenge to U.S. primacy, particularly in critical domains like trade, technology, and Indo-Pacific influence.

Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by fauigerzigerk on Saturday August 30, 2025 @10:20AM (#45074911)
I don't see the relevance of what you are saying.

You claimed that it was a fact that selling some bonds would be more devastating than 10 actual nuclear strikes.

We are talking about the effect of the strikes not about their likelihood. You completely changed the subject.

Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by throw10920 on Saturday August 30, 2025 @10:16AM (#45074883)
Please do not post LLM-generated comments.
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by llbbdd on Saturday August 30, 2025 @12:41PM (#45075984)
These replies on every comment that may or not be LLM generated are much worse
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by wqaatwt on Sunday August 31, 2025 @05:35AM (#45081829)
So a single line of spam is worse than 5 paragraphs?
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by llbbdd on Sunday August 31, 2025 @11:56AM (#45084157)
Worse than five paragraphs of information? Yes. If there's something wrong with the content, discuss that. OP claims below anyway that no LLM was used, and that reply is only necessary because of this kind of witch hunt spam, so it becomes overall more noise than just one comment anyway.
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by honeybadger1 on Saturday August 30, 2025 @04:20PM (#45077697)
I didn't use an LLM to craft my retort, and in my opinion, I certainly didn't change the subject either. Why on earth bother fretting over hypotheticals that are never going to happen? Ten nuclear bombs dropping is precisely as consequential as none at all, since it's not happening, and there's zero historical precedence for such nonsense anyway.
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by greyw on Saturday August 30, 2025 @08:33AM (#45074085)
China owns 2.1% of the total outstanding US debt. If you include their holdings through Belgium and Luxembourg it is maybe 5%. That is something but nothing that should make you lose sleep over.

Japan owns about 3.1% of the US debt as comparison.

Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by torginus on Saturday August 30, 2025 @08:48AM (#45074186)
Yeah and all that Tesla stock I own makes me want to blow up one of their factories and crash the stock price
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by bubbleRefuge on Saturday August 30, 2025 @10:52AM (#45075159)
Absolutely false. Worse case is dollar going down. Interest rates are exogenous and controlled by the fed who can buy all the treasuries in the world at a moment's notice. The treasury securities held by China are their problem . Not the US's.
Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by wqaatwt on Sunday August 31, 2025 @05:33AM (#45081823)
> more devastating to the US economy

It wouldn’t be that great for China either..

Re:Grok Code Fast 1 by hedora on Saturday August 30, 2025 @10:53AM (#45075162)
So, which model providers are supporting the US?

Multiple domestic providers are actively helping dismantle US-based science, research, public health, emergency response, democratic elections, etc.