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Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by ActorNightly on Friday August 08, 2025 @04:12PM (#44841180)
Yes. Google is probably gonna win the LLM game tbh. They had a massive head start with TPUs which are very efficient compared to Nvidia Cards.
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by fakedang on Friday August 08, 2025 @05:13PM (#44841749)
Yeah honestly. They could just try selling solutions and SLAs combining their TPU hardware with on-prem SOTA models and practically dominate enterprise. From what I understand, that's GCP's gameplay too for most regulated enterprise clients.
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by ActorNightly on Friday August 08, 2025 @05:53PM (#44842065)
Googles bread and butter is advertising, so they have a huge interest in keeping things in house. Data is more valuable to them than money from hardware sales.

Even then, I think that their primary use case is going to be consumer grade good AI on phones. I dunno why Gemma QAT model fly so low on the radar, but you can basically get full scale Llamma 3 like performance from a single 3090 now, at home.

Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by klik99 on Friday August 08, 2025 @06:25PM (#44842318)
It’s my understanding that google makes bulk of ad money from search ads - sure they harvest a ton of data but it isn’t as valuable to them as you’d think. I suspect they know that could change so they’re hoovering up as much as they can to hedge their bets. Meta on the other hand is all about targeted ads.
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by ActorNightly on Saturday August 09, 2025 @11:30PM (#44852556)
Right so keeping things in house and seeing what people are asking Gemini would be probably better for them?
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by fakedang on Friday August 08, 2025 @06:02PM (#44842146)
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/09/google-will-let-companies-ru...

Google has already started the process of letting companies self-host Gemini, even on NVidia Blackwell GPUs.

Although imho, they really should bundle it with their TPUs as a turnkey solution for those clients who haven't invested in large scale infra like DCs yet.

Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by to11mtm on Friday August 08, 2025 @11:00PM (#44843718)
My guess is that either google want's a high level of physical control over their TPUs, or they have one sort of deal or another with NVidia and don't want to step on their toes.

And also, Google's track record with hardware.

Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by ActorNightly on Saturday August 09, 2025 @11:31PM (#44852558)
Its the same format as other software - you release the actual software for free but offer managed services that work with that software way better and easier.
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by fakedang on Sunday August 10, 2025 @11:13AM (#44855741)
Yeah but those are on Google's managed cloud, and not onprem. But that recent announcement has been specifically for Google Distributed Cloud, which is huge.

My point was a bit more specific though. To elaborate, I know of a number of publicly traded companies (USD $200M+ market cap) globally which have identified use cases for onprem AI and want to implement them actively but cannot, because they lack the knowhow to work with onprem, and hiring talent to implement that is just extremely expensive. Google should simply provide it as a turnkey bundle and milk them for it.

Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by Horos on Saturday August 09, 2025 @02:23AM (#44844460)
Gemma Term of uses ?
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by Ericson2314 on Friday August 08, 2025 @10:24PM (#44843565)
Relenting hardware like that would be such a cleansing old-school revenue stream for Google... just imagine...
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by baxtr on Friday August 08, 2025 @05:47PM (#44842021)
The only one who can stop Google is Google.

They’ll definitely have the best model, but there is a chance they will f*up the product / integration into their products.

Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by scarface_74 on Friday August 08, 2025 @06:12PM (#44842214)
It would take talent for them to mess up hosting businesses who want to use their TPUs on GCP.

But then again even there, their reputation for abandoning products, lack of customer service, condescension when it came to large enterprises’ “legacy tech” lets Microsoft who is king of hand holding big enterprise and even AWS run rough shod over them.

When I was at AWS ProServe, we didn’t even bother coming up with talking points when competing with GCP except to point out how they abandon services. Was it partially FUD? Probably. But it worked.

Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by serf on Friday August 08, 2025 @07:11PM (#44842636)
>It would take talent for them to mess up hosting businesses who want to use their TPUs on GCP.

there are few groups as talented at losing a head start as google.

Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by throwaway2037 on Thursday August 14, 2025 @02:23AM (#44897304)
DEC, Sun, Intel, Blackberry, Motorola, Nokia: More talented in that area!
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by JoshuaDavid on Friday August 08, 2025 @06:45PM (#44842468)
Google employees collectively have a lot of talent.
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by bee_rider on Friday August 08, 2025 @10:01PM (#44843458)
A truly astonishing amount of talent applied to… hosting emails very well, and losing the search battle against SEO spammers.
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by big_hacker on Saturday August 09, 2025 @04:17AM (#44844889)
Well, Search had no chance when the sites also make money from Google ads. Google fucked their Search by creating themselves incentives for bounce rate.
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by rlupi on Saturday August 09, 2025 @06:21AM (#44845370)
> It would take talent for them to mess up hosting businesses who want to use their TPUs on GCP. > But then again even there, their reputation for abandoning products

What are the chances of abandoning TPU-related projects where the company literally invested billions in infrastructure? Zero.

Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by scarface_74 on Saturday August 09, 2025 @07:12AM (#44845595)
Enterprise sales and support takes a lot of people skills, hand holding, showing respect for the current state, being willing to deal with and navigate the internal politics of the customer, etc.

All things that Google is remarkably bad at.

Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by thechao on Saturday August 09, 2025 @09:23AM (#44846270)
I don't know what scale of "billions" you're talking about; but, Intel blew 1–2 billion on Larrabee. Even worse: Intel blew 5+ billion on mobile pre-iPhone. I remember when that team was shown the door — that's when we had to evaluate the early RGX GPUs as a backstop to try to win Apple's business; the RGX's were turds.

Penny-wise pound-foolish.

Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by scarface_74 on Saturday August 09, 2025 @10:36AM (#44846817)
Intel also wasted untold billions trying to compete with Qualcomm building cellular chips with lackluster results and the sold the division to Apple which has spent billions more just to end up with the lackluster C1 in the SE.
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by fc417fc802 on Sunday August 10, 2025 @06:38PM (#44858911)
Bit of an aside but Larrabee didn't fail. Intel inexplicably abandoned the consumer GPU market but the same tech was successfully sold to enterprise customers in the form of Xeon Phi. Several of the largest supercomputing clusters have used them.

https://tomforsyth1000.github.io/blog.wiki.html#%5B%5BWhy%20...

Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by adastra22 on Friday August 08, 2025 @10:11PM (#44843508)
There is plenty of time left to fumble the ball.
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by qcnguy on Saturday August 09, 2025 @09:05AM (#44846188)
And they already did many times.
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by davedx on Friday August 08, 2025 @06:11PM (#44842210)
But they’re ASICs so any big architecture changes will be painful for them right?
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by edoceo on Friday August 08, 2025 @07:47PM (#44842858)
I'd think no. They have the hardware and software experience, likely have next and next-next plans in place already. The big hurdle is money, which G has a bunch of.
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by llm_nerd on Friday August 08, 2025 @10:31PM (#44843608)
TPUs are accelerators that accelerate the common operations found in neural nets. A big part is simply a massive number of matrix FMA units to process enormous matrix operations, which comprises the bulk of doing a forward pass through a model. Caching enhancements and massively growing memory was necessary to facilitate transformers, but on the hardware side not a huge amount has changed and the fundamentals from years ago still powers the latest models. The hardware is just getting faster and with more memory and more parallel processing units. And later getting more data types to enable hardware-enabled quantization.

So it isn't like Google designed a TPU for a specific model or architecture. They're pretty general purpose in a narrow field (oxymoron, but you get the point).

The set of operations Google designed into a TPU is very similar to what nvidia did, and it's about as broadly capable. But Google owns the IP and doesn't pay the premium and gets to design for their own specific needs.

Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by saagarjha on Saturday August 09, 2025 @05:10AM (#44845095)
There are plenty of matrix multiplies in the backward pass too. Obviously this is less useful when serving but it's useful for training.
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by stogot on Friday August 08, 2025 @06:59PM (#44842557)
Hasn’t the Inferentia chip been around long enough to make the same argument? AWS and Google probably have the same order of magnitude of their own custom chips
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by saagarjha on Saturday August 09, 2025 @05:13AM (#44845111)
Inferentia has a generally worse stack but yes
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by benreesman on Saturday August 09, 2025 @03:11AM (#44844662)
Google will win the LLM game if the LLM game is about compute, which is the common wisdom and maybe true, but not foreordained by God. There's an argument that if compute was the dominant term that Google would never have been anything but leading by a lot.

Personally right now I see one clear leader and one group going 0-99 like a five sigma cosmic ray: Anthropic and the PRC. But this is because I believe/know that all the benchmarks are gamed as hell, its like asking if a movie star had cosmetic surgery. On quality, Opus 4 is 15x the cost and sold out / backordered. Qwen 3 is arguably in next place.

In both of those cases, extreme quality expert labeling at scale (assisted by the tool) seems to be the secret sauce.

Which is how it would play out if history is any guide: when compute as a scaling lever starts to flatten, you expert label like its 1987 and claim its compute and algorithms until the government wises up and stops treating your success persobally as a national security priority. It's the easiest trillion Xi Xianping ever made: pretending to think LLMs are AGI too, fast following for pennies on the dollar, and propping up a stock market bubble to go with the fentanyl crisis? 9-D chess. It's what I would do about AI if I were China.

Time will tell.

Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by 0_____0 on Saturday August 09, 2025 @06:24AM (#44845380)
I believe Google might win the LLM game simply because they have the infrastructure to make it profitable - via ads.

All the LLM vendors are going to have to cope with the fact that they're lighting money on fire, and Google have the paying customers (advertisers) and with the user-specific context they get from their LLM products, one of the juciest and most targetable ad audiences of all time.

Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by throwaway2037 on Thursday August 14, 2025 @02:37AM (#44897384)
This is one of the best insights after reading 100+ posts here. You are talking about existing demand and existing relationships from their advert business. These customers are happy with Google results. The Google marketing team will be carefully defining new advert products that employ LLMs.

I would only offer one disagreement with your post: There will not be a single winner in LLMs. The landscape is so large that we will have multiple winners in different areas. Example: Google might fail in B2C LLM (chatbot that answers your questions), but will certainly be (wildly?) successful in B2B for adverts.

Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by 0_____0 on Friday August 15, 2025 @07:24PM (#44918424)
Hm, yes I agree that winner-take-all is not necessary. A viable monetization strategy is. Meta and Google have this through their ad business, and I think it's possible that some other smaller players might bring in revenue by targeting particular niches like industrial and defense customers who need an LLM product but have data security needs and can afford the product directly.
Re:Ask HN: How can ChatGPT serve 700M users when I can't run... by ActorNightly on Saturday August 09, 2025 @11:33PM (#44852566)
Everyone seems to forget about Mu Zero which was arguably more important than transformer architecture.