A tremendous portion of the truck market are people who live in urban to suburban areas and need to move things. For that audience, the ability to fit a 4x8' plywood sheet easily puts this ahead of a surprising number of conventional trucks on utility. The 2k lbs payload on the 2WD drive model is more than a Tacoma and some configurations of the F150, for example, popular models that also don't fit a 4x8 sheet without strapping it down over the cab or another awkward technique. It also lists a towing cap of 6,600 which is competitive with many production pickups.

There's a divide in needs between off-roading and moving things around, and this seems oriented in the moving things around direction. I can easily see it working for a landscaper in a suburban environment, for example, where the driving miles per day are really not that high and 6,600 is plenty for a typical landscaper's trailer.

From everything I've seen, true off-roading applications are a pretty small portion of the overall truck market, and one that many popular trucks right now are also poorly optimized for (popular 2WD configurations, middling clearances, etc).

I just put down a deposit. I make things from plywood sometimes, and even in my wife's R1S it's a pain. When we don't take the R1S, all 5 of us have to fit in my car (Honda Clarity). I coach robotics teams and sometimes need to haul a lot of stuff. Sometimes we do some light offroading in the R1S.

Looks like this will do all the things I need OK. I would like to drive something small and easy to park, that I could offroad a bit, carry my family a bit, haul stuff a bit.

And I've always liked the weird aesthetic of kei trucks and things like the Jeep Forward Control.

> I wonder if Telo is attempting to define a new category.

It's a Kei truck. That's not a new thing. Online discourses categorizing Telo as one leads to people pointing out Kei are equipped with weaker engines for legal reasons, that doesn't matter. US finally started making its own Kei truck.

I would say "kei" does pretty specifically refer to vehicles adhering to those Japanese regulations. I think "minitruck" or "compact truck" would be a better, more general name.

The CEO pretty clearly says it's meant to be a city truck with small size but just as much utility (or more) than something like a Tacoma.

https://youtu.be/pw250Va1JFo?t=469

I'm failing to see how this could have as much or more utility than a Tacoma. I don't see any mention of towing or payload. Not to mention, the clearance will be limiting for anyone who wants to venture off road at all.

Payload's around 1700-2000 pounds, TBD.

Towing is possible but limited-- this is a weak point for all electric vehicles-- but good enough to haul a trailer to the dump or a boat a small distance.

But the bed is better in some ways than the Tacoma.

Big question is whether they can reach production and really deliver for this pricing, etc. They have ~11k preorders and could develop a lot more.

What would be the limitation that prevents you from mountain biking? It seems to have a similar sized bed to a Tacoma?

I’m unsure why people think they need such big vehicles for outdoors sports. We drove thousands of miles around Europe with 4 kayaks on the roof of a Ford Fiesta. Or you can easily fit three mountain bikes on a rear bike rack.

I also used to throw my mountain bike on the back of my sports car! It was, in retrospect, ridiculous.

I’ve also seen a motorcyclist having a bike mounted on a hitch!

Optimization for tiny isn’t a factor in the big outdoors. Indeed, I see more people in Sprinter vans than Teslas by mountain biking hot spots. So it’s not about “could you”, it’s about comfort and practicality of anything / everything else you may want to do beyond just lugging a bike to a trail. Such as: the optionality to go truly off road - in the vehicle not on the bike.

Depends on what you're in to, but there's a HUGE amount of land in the US and a lot of lakes and mountains don't have paved roads to them.

(Check out Montana, Wyoming, Alaska, etc.)

I need to tow a 5000lb boat 300 miles without charging and I need to fit 6 passengers. It needs to be $30K or less.

I realize Europeans have a much different understanding of distance and cargo needs; I do. But, 300 miles and 6 passengers is a pretty common requirement here in the US.

I was responding to someone worried about the practicality of carrying mountain bikes to the Santa Cruz mountains 50 miles from San Francisco.

I don't think it's possible to buy a new 6 passenger vehicle rated for towing 5000lb in the US for under $30K.

Europe allows towing with much smaller vehicles. There you can do 4400lb in a Golf and 4850lb in Passat though you might still struggle for 6 passengers for $30k new.

Well, you were responding to me, after I noted my excursions through Baja, the mountain west and Oklahoma.

Santa Cruz Mountain roads tend to be well paved. Though, large exceptions definitely exist! (E.g. Highland Way)

Why without charging? Are there time constraints?

I often find that I want to take a break after a couple hours of driving, and even when I drove a gas vehicle, those breaks would be 30-40 minutes long unless it was an exceptionally long day of driving. With a little planning I’ve found that I can do 90% of the trips in my EV that I used to do in my gas car. I probably can’t replicate the couple 1000-mile-in-one-day trips I did in my previous vehicle, but those experiences also made me not want to.

FWIW, in the last two years alone I have driven my EV from MA to Nova Scotia and back, MA to Iowa and back, MA to MD and back, and all over the eastern seaboard (trips to the Adirondacks, WV, etc). Lately I have not even had to plan anymore. It was surprising to discover that I could plug my car (a Bolt) into a GM charger in Indiana this summer and not even need to fiddle with an app. Things have improved dramatically for road trips in the last two years, and I have probably one of the slowest charging cars out there. Really, the only thing stopping me from buying an EV pickup is that I don’t want to pay that much for a vehicle with such an absurdly small bed. My Bolt can pull a small trailer just fine.

Because he can tow 300 miles easily with a ICE vehicle, and he can fill up anywhere in 5 minutes or less. Once you can charge cars in 5 minutes or less, I doubt he’d have made that a requirement.

Because I travel to places without charging infra.

I hear you. I love to go to very remote places. But I guess I see it more of a personal challenge.

I started looking at camping trailers recently to tow with my Rivian. I quickly went off the idea when I realized that each time I’d need to charge en-route I’d have to find somewhere to park the camper, unhitch, go charge, then do it all in reverse. That’s going to add at least 20 mins to each charging session. None of this is necessary if I were filling with gas. For typical places I go camping here in CO that could be two or three times per journey direction.

My in-laws tow a heavy, non-aero homemade camping trailer on their Rivian in Colorado. Two things make this work: they don't haul it long distance like you do, and they drive uphill to campsites, and then on the way home they're just charging the whole way back. I realize that there are no free lunches in energy conservation, but this diminishes range anxiety for them I think. Or I misinterpreted our convo and it's just a funny quirk of getting around the mountains.

That’s good to know actually. The distance I travel is certainly not necessary, there is closer camping, but I just tend to prefer areas that are all the way across the mountains from me. Do you know what sort of range they get while towing?

Yeah I asked when we went camping together and I remember them saying that it's a bit better than half the normal miles/kWh. The site we went to was about 22 miles and 3,600 feet of climbing from their driveway, so they were not at all worried about range. If you really want to make sure you make it home, load up your camper with rocks at the campsite so you are charging more on your way home, then dump them when you reach the lowest point on your drive home.

The camper is a cabin with cedar shingles on top of a 5'x10' Harbor Freight trailer. Heavy and not at all aero haha.

No pickup will do that. Even crew cab pickups normally max out at 5 people (4 passengers), because there is no bench seat up front anymore. Even a Ford Maverick is $30k or so, and that won’t tow a 5000lb boat. Max listed towing is 4klb.

> I need to tow a 5000lb boat 300 miles without charging and I need to fit 6 passengers. It needs to be $30K or less.

Then you need a used diesel pickup truck. 6 people is a stretch unless at least one of those is an infant or you have people on laps.

> I need to tow a 5000lb boat 300 miles without charging

That's a 4-5 hour trip and you don't want to stop to charge for thirty minutes? One bathroom break or stop for food and you've already spent probably half of those 30m stopped anyway.

> fit 6 passengers

This truck does? It has a third row.

But I'm curious what truck you think will comfortably fit six passengers for under $30k. If the second row fits three people and the front row fits two passengers (and frankly, having a person ride in the middle of the front row is ridiculous), you only seat five passengers. Even if you count the driver as a passenger, at best you've got one uncomfortable occupant.

- Ram 1500 starts at 40k

- F150 starts at 38k

- Silverado 1500 starts at 37k

- Ford Superduty starts above 40k

- Sierra 1500 starts at 38k

And most of these are just bench seats in the front, not a third row.

Do the Ranger

It's base MSRP is 33k and it only does five passengers

OK buy a different fucking vehicle then? Sorry this one isn't for you.

"I commute 400 miles each way to work, every day, towing my 5000 pound boat, fully equipped outdoor kitchen trailer/classroom, my home-schooled family of 6, 6 dogs, a portable sawmill, solar-powered game freezer + ammunition, and an extra trailer because I might have to go to home depot."

1. I don't commute; I work from home.

2. I would use a truck as it was intended to be used--as a truck.

3. I have a lake home 150 miles from my primary home and I don't want to have to drive 4 kids and 2 adults in two separate cars every time.

4. There is no charging infrastructure near my lake home.

Do you have power at the lake house? Then you have charging infrastructure. Also, why are you towing the boat to and from the lake house?

And again, which new production pickup fits 6 people?

I have power, yes; however, I can't even run the toaster oven and A/C, for example, at the same time. There's likely no way I could charge an EV w/o having everything trip the breaker. And there's no way to go beyond what we have unless the electric company upgrades our service.

More advanced EVSEs are capable of adjusting the power delivered based on the power available. It does require a sensor on the supply cables to determine how much power is being used, but it's technically capable without a service upgrade. Also, electric companies will frequently upgrade an old 50/100 amp service to 200 amp for low or no cost (because they figure you'll pay off the cost of doing so through more power usage). The panel side of the service upgrade will cost you, but then you'll be able use the toaster oven at the same time as the A/C.

I'm American and this sounds really off. AFAIK pickups in the US typically have space for five passengers, not six. And good luck finding new pickups that can tow 5000 lbs under 30k; as a category, pickups have experienced quite a lot of price inflation, as I understand it.

Right. What I’m saying is if you’re going to make a compact car with a bed, it better cost less than a pickup.

A $41K ($46K for AWD) “truck” is absurd. This isn’t a viable option for Americans, at all.

I’m not sure what you mean. The 2025 F150 starts at $39k. https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/

And if you want it to be electric, it starts at $55k: https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150-lightning/

Slate is targeting mid-twenties and has over 70+ prototypes vehicles on the road.

Last I checked Telo has... one prototype?

Telo's doomed, anyways.

Slate is ugly and not nearly as functional. Predicting who is doomed at this point is silly. But there will be a small electric truck soon, which is nice.

Slate: $27k, 150 mile range

Telo: $41k 350 mile range

Slate: 2 door with bed, or 4 door no bed.

Telo: 4 door with bed.

I’d hardly say telo isn’t a viable option compared to slate.

Anyway what really matters is if any of these companies can get a vehicle to market, and at what price point. I’m not about to buy an imaginary car, and neither are you.

Fwiw if they were for sale i would strongly consider buying a telo. It looks perfect for my needs - slate less so, but if they’re all that’s available i’d strongly consider it

I don’t think slate has a four door option. It’s still two door, but with a rear seat that you can clamber into after pushing the front seat forward.

Oh! Yes that’s true! I thought at first glance the ones with an enclosed back seat had doors but it looks like they don’t.

> Last I checked Telo has... one prototype?

As of OpenSauce last month, they had 3 that were roadworthy. I think the company is 15 people big so it would be odd if they had a fleet with mfgr/prototype plates.

They were cagey on their manufacturing strategy but I got the sense that it'll be mostly contract manufacturing. I think slate is trying to keep as much in-house as possible and that means saying "no" to some design decisions that would require a step-up in terms of manufacturing capabilities. E.G.: Composite panels are a hell of a lot cheaper to make than stamped metal panels so slate isn't going to contract the metal stamping out.

This isn’t a F150; it’s a mini with a bed. They’re apples to oranges.

People are buying Rivians that cost much more.

People who can afford $100K+ for a new one and $65K+ for a used one are not most people.

Many people finance cars well beyond their means…

$41k is not an absurd starting price for a truck. Look at f150 prices, starting at 39k.

Why did you put airquotes around truck? It's got a 60 inch bed and seats 4. What truck quality is it missing?