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Re:Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hi... by phkahler on Thursday July 31, 2025 @08:36PM (#44751810)
Nope. Smaller more affordable homes would be a better solution. Most people who rent cant afford to buy, but rent is a worse deal long term.
Re:Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hi... by marcus_holmes on Thursday July 31, 2025 @11:43PM (#44752823)
This is only true for two reasons:

1. House prices have risen consistently for the past ~50 years. This is an anomaly (various theories why, my favourite is because women entered the workforce so the income per household increased and we spend as much as we can afford on housing). If/when house prices stop rising consistently then buying doesn't look much better than renting from a financial perspective.

2. Existing laws tend to favour the landlord over the tenant. In countries where this is not true (e.g. most of Europe) and the tenant is favoured, then renting is not so precarious and has lots of advantages.

I lived in rented accomodation in Berlin and it's a completely different experience from renting in the Anglosphere (UK or Australia for me, I don't know about the USA).

Re:Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hi... by bombcar on Thursday July 31, 2025 @09:38PM (#44752181)
It’s actually quite hard to definitively quantify if renting or owning is better in a given area/scenario.

Obviously the case near me where the mortgage payment on a house would be $2600/mo but the rent for the identical one next door is $2000 is going to swing heavily toward renting, but there’s more to it than just that.

Maintenance is huge and real and people just seem to ignore it on the “own” side, but 5-10% of the value of the house a year in maintenance isn’t unheard of.

Re:Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hi... by arcticfox on Thursday July 31, 2025 @11:13PM (#44752677)
> but 5-10% of the value of the house a year in maintenance isn’t unheard of.

I assure you I am not paying ~$30k in maintenance on my ~$400k house every year... that would be comical

Re:Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hi... by bombcar on Thursday July 31, 2025 @11:44PM (#44752825)
Add it up and work it out; factor out the land if you must (e.g., pretend it’s a landlord business and you’re renting to yourself).

Maintenance items add up, and some only happen every 20-30 years, it can hit hard. A new roof every 30 years at $10k is already noticeable.

Re:Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hi... by jjav on Friday August 01, 2025 @03:19AM (#44753899)
> A new roof every 30 years at $10k is already noticeable

That'd be $333/year averaged out, two orders of magnitude away from 30K/year example of OP.

Re:Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hi... by sokoloff on Friday August 01, 2025 @09:23AM (#44756440)
The $10K roof is noticeable precisely because it's an outlier that pulls the average up towards the 1-2% per year range for all but the least expensive houses.

If houses really consumed 5-10% of the purchase price on average per year, people wouldn't worry or talk so much about roof replacements; they'd be just other drops in the bucket.

Re:Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hi... by arcticfox on Friday August 01, 2025 @07:44PM (#44763645)
I could replace my roof, literally the most expensive regular maintenance, for $10k a pop twice a year and still come out way under your estimate lol
Re:Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hi... by ulrikrasmussen on Friday August 01, 2025 @12:33AM (#44753030)
Also, a lot of the loan payments go towards your own equity, whereas all of the rent goes to someone else's.
Re:Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hi... by jjav on Friday August 01, 2025 @03:18AM (#44753888)
> 5-10% of the value of the house a year in maintenance isn’t unheard of

That's actually pretty much unheard-of (unless you specifically bought a very cheap fixer-upper with the intent of remodeling).

I've owned current house for over 25 years and I have not spent 10% of its value in maintenance even if I add up everything over the 25+ years! Let alone every year!

Re:Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hi... by sokoloff on Friday August 01, 2025 @09:17AM (#44756369)
> where the mortgage payment on a house would be $2600/mo but the rent for the identical one next door is $2000 is going to swing heavily toward renting

I think those figures point towards buying being favored, especially if the mortgage payment is PITI, but even if it's principal and interest only, I think buying is likely to be better in the long-term if the spread is that small.

Maintenance is not going to run 5% of the purchase price on average, except in the most extreme low-cost housing situations. A house that sold for ~$500K (as would be implied by a $2600 mortgage payment) is not going to cost $500K in maintenance over the next 20 years (as 5% would imply) and certainly not over the next 10 (as 10% would).

You may have an individual year that's over 10%, but that's a cashflow issue not an overall cost issue.

The advantage of renting is the flexibility, lack of commitment to a specific house or area, and the lack of need for a large upfront sum (in this example, renting might need $6K upfront [$2K of which is the first month's rent], while buying might need traditionally $100K to avoid PMI or ~$20K on an FHA first-time buyer mortgage and associated transaction costs).

Re:Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hi... by Retric on Thursday July 31, 2025 @08:49PM (#44751874)
For single family homes square footage alone has a fairly modest impact on housing prices.

Land, driveway, number and quality of fixtures, electrical hookups, cabinets, countertops, doors, clearing land, water, sewage, etc can be nearly identical costs for a 1,000 sf or a 3,000sf home. Many things like wall insulation and heating demand increase sub linearly with square footage.

Which is why home builders so heavily favor large homes by historic standards. This is slightly less true of high rises, but making the building wider doesn’t require more elevators, internal hallways, etc.

Re:Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hi... by sokoloff on Thursday July 31, 2025 @09:45PM (#44752218)
A 1000 sqft, 3BR, 1 Bath, basic kitchen unit will be cheaper than a 3000 sqft 4BR, 2.5 Bath, fancy kitchen unit. Builders (and most everyone else involved in real estate) make a lot more money on the latter than the former, though.
Re:Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hi... by Retric on Friday August 01, 2025 @08:54AM (#44756070)
Cheaper sure, but a large fraction of the difference is that extra 1.5 bathroom and fancy kitchen. Plus all the other little difference like more larger and nicer windows.
Re:Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hi... by sokoloff on Friday August 01, 2025 @08:57AM (#44756102)
Exactly; those are the things that are needed to turn "smaller more affordable homes would be a better solution" into reality.
Re:Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hi... by Retric on Friday August 01, 2025 @10:27AM (#44757299)
I’m not sure I get your point. If the utility of a home is largely a function of size, but the cost is largely a function of location and amenities then there’s little benefit to specifically building smaller homes rather than less expensive homes.
Re:Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hi... by sokoloff on Friday August 01, 2025 @10:59AM (#44757777)
No one is seeking to build smaller; they're seeking to build less expensive.

Building smaller (specifically reducing square footage, baths, and kitchen amenities [which are a mix of size and non-size elements], and using less land [going up, sharing walls/roofs, etc.]) is the mechanism by which the goal of less expensive can be met.

Re:Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hi... by Retric on Saturday August 02, 2025 @11:48AM (#44768588)
“Size” within the normal range of homes is only going to save you 2-5% on its own. It’s not useless, but doesn’t actually make that meaningful of difference while significantly impacting the homes utility.

Amenities on the other hand can literally 2X+ the cost of a home.