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Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by lbarrow on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:21PM (#4460333)
From a mathematical perspective, this is actually not that surprising.

Think of the act of clicking the first link in the Wikipedia article as a function that takes in the page you're on and outputs another page.

If you call this function on itself over and over again (ie use the output of one step as in the input of the next step), you will eventually enter a loop. The proof of this is simple: there are only a finite number of Wikipedia articles, therefore you must eventually reach an article you've seen before. (This is the same reason systems with a finite number of states cannot be chaotic.)

Since it's necessarily true that all articles will eventually reach a loop when you iteratively click the first link, we have to ask: how unusual is it that they usually reach the SAME loop?

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by Nitramp on Saturday September 01, 2012 @08:28AM (#4463514)
The fact that many lead to the same loop(1) of Argument <-> Logic in unsurprising, too. Wikipedia articles usually define their subject in in the first sentence. Defining things works by saying what general category they belong to, then by differentiating them within that.

E.g.

A fish is any member of a paraphyletic group of organisms that consist of all gill-bearing aquatic craniate animals that lack limbs with digits.

Google Inc. (NASDAQ: GOOG) is an American _multinational corporation_ which provides Internet-related products and services [...]

A table is a form of _furniture_ with a flat and satisfactory horizontal upper surface [...]

And so on. If you always walk up the abstraction chain because you're picking the first link (the general category), you'll end up at the root of the categorization tree, which is likely something along the lines of Argument, Logic, Fact etc.

Note however that the current state of wikipedia has a different root loop for me, Logic leads to Philosophy.

(1) or one of a very limited number of loops, I also saw Science <-> Knowledge.

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by justincormack on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:27PM (#4460708)
Unless the articles are edited before you come back!
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by johnrob on Friday August 31, 2012 @02:59PM (#4461156)
Another way of thinking about it: There are N nodes that loop back to themselves. When starting at a given node, what are the odds that you'll never hit one of these N nodes? Additionally, we know that many of the N nodes are very general ones, like "truth", under which many topics roll up.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by klawed on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:06PM (#4460586)
Agreed. I'd love to know how many different cycles the wikipedia article graph contains. If most articles lead to 1 out of 20 possible cycles, it's much less interesting than if it's 1 out of 5,000,000.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by momotomo on Friday August 31, 2012 @10:52PM (#4462519)
I've been looking to do something like this with the Networkx library in Python, though on an internal company MediaWiki with a much smaller article base. Going to try to visualise much the same thing, the major loops and cliques in the graph.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by dbaupp on Saturday September 01, 2012 @04:42AM (#4463126)
This is the same reason systems with a finite number of states cannot be chaotic

Without more information, I don't think this is true. It is true if the transition function between states depends on a finite number of previous ones (WLOG if s_n is a function of only s_{n-1}), but I think that it isn't if the transition depends on an infinite number.

(Though, in this case, clearly there is no history, so what you say is true.)

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by eru on Saturday September 01, 2012 @05:20AM (#4463195)
If your model only depends on at most a maximum fixed length of history, you can always model your finite systems to only depend on the most recent state. (Just make a copy of the history part of that state.)

In the case of depending on up to an infinite history, I wouldn't call that system to have a finite number of states any longer.

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by alok-g on Friday August 31, 2012 @10:37PM (#4462495)
Unless an article is reached that has no link. [A dead-state in the stated finite-state machine]
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by jfoutz on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:26PM (#4460361)
After the first few runs, i'm kinda surprised it's not a fixed point at Philosophy.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by madcaptenor on Friday August 31, 2012 @02:09PM (#4460919)
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by prawks on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:54PM (#4460512)
Never thought about it as a finite state system, but that's a great way of looking at it.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by johnbender on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:23PM (#4460347)
This may be hyper naive but is this the consequence of beginning most articles representing the current topic as a more specific form of another topic?

For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebra

"Algebra ... is a branch of mathematics." (mathematics being a link)

So if you continue to generalize you'll end up at the most general subject which appears to be philosophy.

[update] added an example

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by dude_abides on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:57PM (#4460538)
ah so thats why the degree is called Doctor of Philosophy?! Thanks for the enlightenment! I've wondered quite a lot of times why I'm a Doctor of Philosophy in Computer Science, and not Doctor of Computer Science.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by fhars on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:20PM (#4460666)
Traditionally, a university had four faculties, the lower or artists faculty, and the three higher faculties of theology, law and medicine. Students would start in the artists faculty learning the seven liberal arts (grammar, rhetoric, logic, arithmetic, geometry, music, and astronomy (including astrology)) to become a magister artium (M.A.) and then go to one of the higher faculties to get their doctorate (Th.D, LL.D or M.D., respectively). Philosophy and science (née natural philosophy) developed in the artists faculty and over time became important enough to grant the artists faculty the right to grant doctorates, too, with philosophy leading the way. That's why many science faculties, which split off of the artists faculty over the centuries still grant the title of a doctor of philosophy.

Ah, and the first three of the liberal arts that were the first thing a student learned, grammar, rhetoric and logic, were called the trivium, hence the modern word "trivial" for obvious things everyone should know.

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by andrewljohnson on Friday August 31, 2012 @02:12PM (#4460931)
Really cool comment, I love finding interesting trivia in forums.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by svasan on Saturday September 01, 2012 @12:16AM (#4462635)
> 'interesting trivia'

In the above - grammar, rhetoric, logic - formed the "trivium" and - arithmetic, geometry, music, and astronomy - formed the "quadrivium".

Also "trivium" represented the place where three roads would intersect. People would meet here and exchange pleasantries and gossip. That is how you get the current meaning of the word "trivia".

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by stollercyrus on Friday August 31, 2012 @02:49PM (#4461103)
That's really cool. Thanks for sharing.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by groue on Sunday September 02, 2012 @05:31AM (#4466639)
Very interesting, thanks. http://atilf.atilf.fr and Dictionnaire historique de la langue Française both see two meanings for the French "trivial": one is common as in commonplace, and the other is common as in gross and vulgar. The first comes from /trivialis/, as fhars says. The latter comes from /trivium/, the crossroads. I don't know if English also has the second meaning: vulgar.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by znowi on Saturday September 01, 2012 @02:25AM (#4462841)
Thank you. I enjoyed reading this. Would be nice if you wrote a little blog post on the subject :)
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by tomjakubowski on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:15PM (#4460645)
I get that this is tongue-in-cheek, but philosophy as in "Doctor of Philosophy" doesn't refer to the field of philosophy per se, but to the more general concept of "love of knowledge."
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by csomar on Friday August 31, 2012 @03:40PM (#4461344)
Not sure why you are getting down votes, but checking over Wikipedia confirms your comment

In the context of academic degrees, the term "philosophy" does not refer solely to the field of philosophy, but is used in a broader sense in accordance with its original Greek meaning, which is "love of wisdom". In most of Europe, all fields other than theology, law and medicine were traditionally known as philosophy. The doctorate of philosophy as it exists today originated as a doctorate in the liberal arts at the Humboldt University of Berlin, and was eventually adopted by United States universities, becoming common in large parts of the world in the 20th century.[1] In many countries, the doctorate of philosophy is still awarded only in the liberal arts, which is known as "philosophy" in continental Europe.

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by jlgreco on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:33PM (#4460400)
That seems like a very reasonable assumption. I just randomly sampled a dozen or so articles and they all followed that theme.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by encoderer on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:36AM (#4460127)
This is beautiful. I've always thought sites like IMDB and Wikipedia are hypertext expressions of the purest form.

As a nerdy kid, over a few years I read my way through a significant chunk of the early 1990's Groliers Encyclopedia set my Grandma bought me at Krogers. And it was never cover-to-cover reading, instead it was filled with hopping around, page-to-page, volume-to-volume. Start at oscilloscope, but what's a cathode ray? And then it's in television? How does broadcasting work? I'd sit on the floor with a half dozen open encyclopedias open around me, the same way we can do now with browser tabs.

Wikipedia has many flaws, but it's a fantastic tool and I'd have killed for it as a 12 year old with 5 volumes of an encyclopedia in my backpack!

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by TazeTSchnitzel on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:07PM (#4460273)
Ah yes. To me (to my productivity's detriment...) quite often when I visit Wikipedia it becomes a learning adventure. From one thing you can hop to the other, finding out all sorts of interesting and obscure things. To a curious mind like mine, Wikipedia is heaven!
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by pattern on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:27PM (#4460369)
For myself, I would broaden this and say that almost every link I visit on HN, or every forum post I read leads to more than 1 additional link. Thus three windows of Chrome open with 10+ tabs each :)

I find this drill-down effect to be quite illuminating, if not productive. Strangely, it seems to provide both depth and breadth of topics in relatively equal measures.

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by dbh937 on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:33PM (#4460729)
Sometimes, I go onto wikipedia just to find out one fact... and end up with 6 or 7 tabs open on the topic, ranging from genetics to Judaism.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by sp332 on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:14AM (#4460041)
As far as I know, this was noticed in May last year on the xkcd forums. http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=71309 There's a writeup of it with a gigantic picture over here: http://www.mrphlip.com/wikiphilosophy/
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by tonylampada on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:42PM (#4460454)
Seems like there is an even older link here on HN http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2584896
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by sp332 on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:45PM (#4460470)
OK, and this game http://spu.co/get-to-philosophy was played at least as far back as August 2010.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by rolux on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:49PM (#4460494)
True, the "wikipedia loop" itself is not a new discovery. But still, congrats for coming up with a nice GUI to demonstrate it!
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by clemesha on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:26PM (#4460705)
I have a site: http://TheWikiGame.com that makes a game out of a related idea (finding the connection between Wikipedia articles).

Recently, I've been giving access to the game data to people (like university researchers, etc) to test different theories on path connections made by real people, etc.

The game has now been running for over 3 years, has about 1.19 million players, playing over 1.37 million games, with about 1.22 million won games (successful start/end article connection).

Got a really cool application for all the game data? I'd love to hear: [email protected]

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by ajryan on Friday August 31, 2012 @05:12PM (#4461715)
I have a kind of Wiki game that I play aloud with friends. Person A names a topic. Person B must guess whether Wikipedia owns the top Google (incognito/not signed-in) result for that term. Person B gets a point for guessing right, or Person A gets a point if Person B guesses wrong. The fun is in coming up with "stumpers.'
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by loumf on Friday August 31, 2012 @02:13PM (#4460934)
Maybe the interesting part is the 150,000 lost games.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by lachenmayer on Friday August 31, 2012 @02:31PM (#4461014)
Surely most of those are just abandoned games?
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by zyb09 on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:50AM (#4460184)
Nobody linked xkcd yet? Relevant Alt-Text: http://xkcd.com/903/
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by anvandare on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:05AM (#4460018)
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by scotttobejoking on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:32AM (#4460109)
As they describe in the page, when you describe something, you are trying to place it within a general framework.

In trying to describe a domain in an encyclopedia, it does little good to use language specific to the domain. If your reader doesn't know what Biology is, it's little use trying to describe it in terms of Microbiology and Immunology. You have to use more general language.

There are are few words more general and meaningless in our language than "organization".

edit - grammar

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by seangransee on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:07AM (#4460023)
i know. when i found that out, i spent half the day on wikipedia trying it out with different pages. so i built a way to automate it :)
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by pavel_lishin on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:08AM (#4460025)
Seems like it would be nice to cache some of these requests, instead of repeatedly hammering the Wikipedia API. And why is it grabbing images?

http://i.imgur.com/KSju9.png

(Incidentally, my test case for the screenshot did not lead to Philosophy!)

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by seangransee on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:09AM (#4460029)
totally agree. i hacked this together pretty quickly last night. definitely a lot of room for improvement. thanks for the feedback!
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by bloaf on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:23PM (#4460687)
It looks like there is a bug where it doesn't fetch the correct page:

http://wikiloopr.com/anime

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by seangransee on Friday August 31, 2012 @03:29PM (#4461288)
fixed
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by tripzilch on Saturday September 01, 2012 @11:38AM (#4463998)
sorry to say, but couldn't you have thought about that before posting it on HN? you're on the front page, if your site really runs without caching, you must be wasting an enormous amount of WP's resources.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by api on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:20PM (#4460329)
Either philosophy is a dead end, then, or it is the base of all knowledge. Depends on whether knowledge is a tree or a graph, which is... a philosophical question!

My brain exploded.

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by beala on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:34PM (#4460402)
If there is some characteristic Q that is true of all knowledge, then Q must be true of Q. A cycle!
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by Cushman on Friday August 31, 2012 @07:03PM (#4462065)
Only if Q is knowable.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by jlgreco on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:39PM (#4460435)
Trees are connected acyclic graphs, so knowledge could be both. ;)
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by tsahyt on Saturday September 01, 2012 @05:44AM (#4463248)
Yes but graphs can very well be cyclic, so eventually a path from a node could lead back to the node itself.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by kevinh on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:35PM (#4460739)
I seem to have broken it here: http://wikiloopr.com/List%20of%20minor%20planets:%2075001%E2...

Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_planets:_75001%E2...

That is, however, a weird Wikipedia page. It seems like the first link is a target to another location on the page, which (I'd assume) would put it in an infinite loop.

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by planckscnst on Saturday September 01, 2012 @08:29AM (#4463516)
"Egypt" also breaks.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by TazeTSchnitzel on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:00PM (#4460242)
It's funny, but it's true that everything in life ultimately leads back to philosophy.

As noted by XKCD, everything is based on something else: http://xkcd.com/435/

And I think after Maths on that should come Philosophy.

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by bloaf on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:59PM (#4460552)
"Nematode" and "Flow (psychology)" stop at "psychology" which I think is just another example of that discipline putting on airs.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by TazeTSchnitzel on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:06PM (#4460585)
That's changed now, thanks to me.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by user24 on Friday August 31, 2012 @03:21PM (#4461251)
I agree. Thought that at the time. Was a philosophy student at the time too though.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by ErrantX on Friday August 31, 2012 @03:42PM (#4461352)
Guys :) This is always fun when it crops up - especially the musing on how deeply rooted the topic of philosophy is.

But please don't go editing articles to improve the loops or otherwise change them. Unless of course the change is beneficial to the article.

It's like going for a walk somewhere fascinating; enjoy the view, but leave nothing behind :)

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by BlackJack on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:36PM (#4460416)
What happens for Biology? http://wikiloopr.com/Biology. For me, it goes down until it gets to Biology, and then highlights Biology over and over.

  Biology
  Natural science
  Science
  Knowledge
  Fact
  Proof (truth)
  Argument
  Philosophy
  Problem
  Doubt
  Belief
  Proposition
  Logic
  Reason
  Human
  Mammal
  Class (biology)
  Biological classification
  Organism
  Biology
The first link on the Wikipedia page for Biology is "Biology(disambiguation)", but the first textual link is "Natural Science". I assume it loops on Biology because it keeps going back between Biology (the article) and Biology (disambiguation), but that doesn't explain why the first redirect is to Natural Science in the very beginning.

Am I just missing something here?

Edit: This no longer happens. Now it properly loops on Philosophy and Proposition.

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by usea on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:06PM (#4460584)
Here is a similar visualization of the phenomenon from last year http://xefer.com/wikipedia
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by creamyhorror on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:41PM (#4460777)
This is a superior visualisation in my opinion - it actually builds you a tree of links as you enter subsequent searches. Quite interesting to see how article chains cluster into 3 or 4 different "main branches".
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by ianstormtaylor on Friday August 31, 2012 @06:08PM (#4461896)
Except there's no autocomplete. I couldn't match Carly rae jepsen... but once you get it, it is much cooler.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by RyanMcGreal on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:45PM (#4460795)
Works for:

* Carly Rae Jepson

* Paul is dead

* Telephony

* Easter Island

* Drum and bass

* Sunglasses

* CAT 5

* Willy Wonka

* Black hole

* Vancouver

* Cloud Cuckoo Land

* Bacon

* Radish

* Brunette

* Dunning-Kruger Effect

* Lady Gaga

* Sailor Moon

If the chain hits Philosophy first, it converges on Philosophy/Argument. If it hits Fact first, it converges on Fact/Truth.

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by ksmiley on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:32AM (#4460110)
I can't replicate it, but I encountered a weird bug. I entered "Star Trek" and hit Enter. The suggested items list appeared and I clicked on "Star Trek". Page titles appeared as normal, but everything appeared twice, like so:

  Star Trek
  Star Trek
  Cinema of the United States
  Film
  Cinema of the United States
  Recording
  Data
  Level of measurement
  Film
  ...etc until the last page title, "Reality"
Seems like two processes were running in parallel and outputting to the same stream.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by xiaoma on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:40AM (#4460143)
I also got a weird one:

    Anime
    Animation
    The page you specified doesn't exist
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by aptwebapps on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:21PM (#4460334)
That's funny because the first link on the Animation page is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusion

Is that an Easter Egg (illusion == doesn't exist)?

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by lotyrin on Friday August 31, 2012 @02:29PM (#4461010)
Same thing here, also from Animation.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by njharman on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:21PM (#4460335)
I love wiki. I spend hours following links. Having loops is a feature or else I might never stop.

Greek City States ->

  Polis
  City
  Human settlement
  Statistics
  Data
  Level of measurement
  Stanley Smith Stevens
  United States
  Federalism
  Politics
  Art
  Human behavior
  Behavior
  Organism
  Biology
  Natural science
  Science
  Knowledge
  Fact
  Proof (truth)
  Argument
  Philosophy
  Problem
  Doubt
  Belief
  Proposition loops to Philosophy
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by joelverhagen on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:26AM (#4460084)
When images appear first in the page's source, the wrong link is chosen. I assume you are trying to go for the first link, as a human reader would see it.

For example, the page on Anime:

http://wikiloopr.com/Anime

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Anime&action=e...

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by seangransee on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:27AM (#4460088)
thanks! gonna fix that later
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by fchollet on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:45PM (#4460797)
http://wikiloopr.com/whale

"Whale" leads to the "pinniped"/"marine mammal" loop. How about that one?

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by 001sky on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:54PM (#4460514)
In fact, according to a crawl of the Wikipedia database from May 2011, nearly 95% of Wikipedia articles will take you back to Philosophy.

- Always interested in the backstory of folks that sit around thinking this stuff up (and then testing it).

http://www.syndiosocial.com/the-philosophy-of-networks/

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by svdad on Sunday September 02, 2012 @02:43AM (#4466404)
I think this is fairly trivially explained in most cases by the fact that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Almost by construction, nearly every article starts with "X is a Y" (modulo grammatical niceties) where Y is a more general class to which X belongs. In cases when the article doesn't follow that form, the first linked term is usually still explanatory or definitional in some sense and hence more general, and cases where that doesn't apply (e.g. Obstacle) are unusual enough that they don't generally break the cycles. There are no "Wikipedia axioms" that I know of, so this is pretty much guaranteed to end in a cycle looping through a limited set of terms used to talk about abstract concepts. Hence Philosophy.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by ThisIBereave on Saturday September 01, 2012 @02:16AM (#4462828)
One of these, at least, is supported by a pretty weird edit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reason&diff=51...

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by urza on Wednesday September 05, 2012 @04:14AM (#4478448)
Few days ago, when this was on MainPage, it ended in different loop than now.

Today most articles ends in cycle between Philosophy and Modern Philosophy.. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_philosophy )

few days ago, it was cycling between Philosophy and Agency ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agency_(philosophy) )

What changed and why?

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by urza on Wednesday September 05, 2012 @04:33AM (#4478489)
Aha, someone changed the first link on page Problem from purpose to obstacle.

Its a little bit like butterfly effect :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Problem&action...

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by pooriaazimi on Friday August 31, 2012 @02:26PM (#4461002)
You have a bug. Pages like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc. (note the dot at the end) have a "geographic coordinate system" link at the top, that isn't part of the article. So queries like http://wikiloopr.com/Steve%20Jobs are actually returning wrong results.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by bandwevil on Friday August 31, 2012 @02:37PM (#4461047)
Yep, it's seeing the "Coordinates" link at the top right corner of the page.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by seangransee on Friday August 31, 2012 @02:33PM (#4461029)
thanks! I'll go ahead and fix it.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by CodeCube on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:43PM (#4460790)
This is the shortest one I've found so far - http://wikiloopr.com/monty%20python
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by seangransee on Friday August 31, 2012 @05:32PM (#4461781)
here's the shortest one i've found: http://wikiloopr.com/home
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by joshaidan on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:27PM (#4460707)
Oh, I think I found one that doesn't loop:

Port Arthur http://wikiloopr.com/Port%20Arthur

Either that, I found a bug.

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by rogerbinns on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:48PM (#4460810)
Not as dramatic but http://wikiloopr.com/Nelson ends up with Great Britain (and then claims it loops to itself with no intermediaries).
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by TillE on Friday August 31, 2012 @02:48PM (#4461099)
Looks like a bug. Dalian should lead to Liaoning.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by mildweed on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:33AM (#4460118)
Epistemology reigns supreme.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by eevilspock on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:08PM (#4460601)
How do you know?
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by DesaiAshu on Friday August 31, 2012 @03:58PM (#4461421)
Does this hold true with following the xth link on the page? I'd predict it does, but the further x is from 1, the longer the average chain before you get to the loop (by virtue of definitions being at the top of wiki articles, then at some point the average length would hit a consistent level). Would love to see this modified to let you determine x.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by jahewson on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:45AM (#4460166)
I quite like the loop between Doubt and Belief http://wikiloopr.com/Doubt
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by guac on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:00PM (#4460555)
The loop found for "Psychology" is pretty neat: http://wikiloopr.com/Psychology

Edit: Looks like somebody is editing certain articles that don't have philosophy as the first link to have it. Psychology used to loop with itself through like 5 intermediates.

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by dirtyaura on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:57PM (#4460534)
After having twenty tries that got me into the philosophy loop, I started to think what are the most basic concepts that philosophy is "made of". Maybe I could escape the loop that way?

And lo and behold, I tried word "word" and it loops between "emotion" and "psychology". http://wikiloopr.com/word

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by TazeTSchnitzel on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:04PM (#4460578)
I fixed that.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by dirtyaura on Friday August 31, 2012 @02:08PM (#4460903)
So did you edit Wikipedia to ensure the Philosophy loop?
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by TazeTSchnitzel on Friday August 31, 2012 @02:14PM (#4460944)
Yes.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by ralfd on Friday August 31, 2012 @06:44PM (#4461997)
Now it loops between "Human" and "Reason". I think there are two secret cabals at work. One to break the Philosophy link and one to thwart these evil schemes.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by fasteddie31003 on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:32AM (#4460107)
This reminds me of a game I used to play as an intern with other interns to kill time. Someone would pick a Wikipedia article deep down in the bowels of Wikipedia and we would race to the article from Wikipedia only using links. We could get the article surprisingly fast, most within only 5 intermediate page visits from the homepage.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by JohnsonB on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:10PM (#4460614)
This behaves erratically. Sometimes it considers the coordinates link, above the entire article the "first link" (in the "Michael Phelps" chain), sometimes not (Chicago). Consequentially, I believe "Michael Phelps", when the coordinate link is ignored, leads to it's own loop that is not the philosophy loop in question.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by PuercoPop on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:47PM (#4460483)
Nice demo, but I think it is an incorrect asumption that the first link is to a broader subject. For example, for Perú it says: "It is bordered on the north by Ecuador and Colombia, on the east by Brazil" So Perú->Ecuador left me with a big wtf..

http://wikiloopr.com/Peru

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by seangransee on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:38AM (#4460133)
about an hour after posting this, someone changed the philosophy page so the philosophy-reality loop doesn't happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy

it still brings you to a loop, but it's not an immediate back-and-forth between the last two.

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by rane on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:04PM (#4460261)
I don't think the loop is the interesting part, what's interesting is that articles lead to philosophy.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by joshaidan on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:19PM (#4460662)
Funny... As I was playing with this, somebody changed the order of:

"In philosophy and sociology..."

On the Agency (philosophy) page. This changed the output of the results, but in the end the loop still existed. However, I couldn't help but feel like someone is trying to hack the matrix.

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by chrishas35 on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:32PM (#4460389)
Someone just changed the Reason page [1] which is now putting the focus on Biology instead of Philosophy.

1: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reason&oldid=5...

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by hoprocker on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:11PM (#4460624)
Puts me in mind of Translation Party[1] (which is back up, kudos to WillC and Rick!). There's a lot to be entertained via this sort of vertex-following algorithm.

[1] http://translationparty.com/

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by pohl on Saturday September 01, 2012 @11:11AM (#4463901)
Here's one that - if executed on the Federation computer on board the Starship Enterprise - would make smoke and sparks fly from the terminal...

http://wikiloopr.com/Reince%20Priebus

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by prezjordan on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:38AM (#4460132)
I played with this [1] when I first started programming in Ruby. The results were super interesting (but now I regret not using the Wikipedia API...)

[1] https://gist.github.com/1654064

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by freejoe76 on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:34PM (#4460406)
Strangely, http://wikiloopr.com/Tacos takes you to a different loop than http://wikiloopr.com/Burritos
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by seangransee on Saturday September 01, 2012 @01:25PM (#4464388)
clearly burritos are the more logical thing to eat
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by tg3 on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:56AM (#4460218)
Interestingly, Paul Graham [1] leads to the photographer, but still leads back to the Web before heading to philosophy/proposition.

[1] http://wikiloopr.com/Paul%20Graham

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by drewmclellan on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:15PM (#4460312)
Keith Chegwin gets stuck in Great Britain, which is probably for the best.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by manish_gill on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:33PM (#4460397)
I remember someone on reddit posting a python script that does the same thing (following the wiki chain to Philosophy).

Amusingly, my test got stuck in a loop between Science and Natural Science. :)

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by zerop on Saturday September 01, 2012 @03:26PM (#4464793)
All roads lead to Mathematics answers it -- http://www.xamuel.com/all-roads-lead-to-mathematics/
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by wkral on Friday August 31, 2012 @04:14PM (#4461487)
You could optimize this a bit by caching the loops, I noticed some pauses between Fact and Truth, seeing as how that loop always comes up it would be nice to cache it.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by sageikosa on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:07PM (#4460596)
And if you go to the last link in any regular paragraph (not footnotes nor tables, nor references) you may often end up bouncing around sports teams.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by leh0n on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:25PM (#4460359)
http://wikiloopr.com/Gate%20City%20Bank I think this one is bugged haha
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by dinedal on Friday August 31, 2012 @06:17PM (#4461922)
Looks like http://wikiloopr.com/Crystal breaks it (The loop has no other end)
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by seangransee on Friday August 31, 2012 @06:21PM (#4461929)
Right now it appears to be looping between Natural Science and Physics. But they're really far apart so you might not seem them on your screen at once.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by Evgeniuz on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:01PM (#4460558)
The first word I tried — jeans — and it failed to make philosophy loop :) Apparently, any articles from generated list will fail too.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by crazypyro on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:07PM (#4460593)
Jeans made the philosophy loop for me?

http://i.imgur.com/rgMkh.png

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by Evgeniuz on Friday August 31, 2012 @03:40PM (#4461340)
Somehow there was Emotion/Psychology loop there. Now it goes even further, than yours image, the loop is Argument/Philosophy now. Clearly, wikipedia is changing or tool was enhanced :)
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by Aldor on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:17AM (#4460053)
http://wikiloopr.com/texting Yay! FInally found one that doesn't work.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by DanBC on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:33AM (#4460116)
That loops between philosophy and preposition.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by sp332 on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:32PM (#4460392)
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by calvinlough on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:30PM (#4460378)
For me it loops between Human and Reason.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by Bjoern on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:11PM (#4460286)
Bangkok is 25 and Chopsticks loops with itself.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by jdpage on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:54PM (#4460516)
Interestingly, things like "Hat", "Shoe", and "Human" end up in a Psychology/Emotion loop, rather than the Philosophy loop.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by strongriley on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:28PM (#4460374)
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by godDLL on Saturday September 01, 2012 @04:17AM (#4463071)
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by steeleduncan on Friday August 31, 2012 @03:37PM (#4461330)
I wonder if this says more about the people who write the articles or the nature of the subjects themselves?
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by JacobIrwin on Saturday September 01, 2012 @06:39PM (#4465381)
'television' was the first search term I could find that broke the loop - on the fifth or sixth attempt
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by bayesbiol on Saturday September 01, 2012 @10:24AM (#4463749)
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by wowfat on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:30PM (#4460379)
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by d4nt on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:50PM (#4460818)
"HTML5 Canvas" gets into a loop on Truth ... Fact ... Truth. Not the usual philosophy loop.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by dewarrn1 on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:37PM (#4460755)
Interesting find: "Sherlock Holmes" avoids the Argument/Philosophy loop; "Poirot" does not.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by seangransee on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:33PM (#4460727)
yesterday, the loop was always the same. since this made it to the top of hacker news, the loop has been changing. look at the revision history of some of those pages and you'll see that people on wikipedia are messing with the loop.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by jamescun on Saturday September 01, 2012 @04:20AM (#4463076)
We used to play this as a game back in high school. First one to find the loop won.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by INTPenis on Saturday September 01, 2012 @06:33AM (#4463315)
Same but at the boring callcenter job I had at the time. Dell Enterprise support, we would get virtually no calls sometimes and we would make up shit to find on wikipedia and whoever found it from a specified starting point in the least amount of jumps won.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by m3mnoch on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:44PM (#4460463)
i started with "The Tyger" and got this:

  The Tyger
  William Blake
  Romanticism
  Industrial Revolution
  United Kingdom
  Britain (placename)
  Great Britain
shrug apparently, william blake is indisputable.

m3mnoch.

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by andrewmunsell on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:35PM (#4460411)
I got stuck in a philosophy-argument loop instead of philosophy-reality ;)
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by twodayslate on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:37PM (#4460430)
I thought Wikipedia hates sites like this. The do more harm than good.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by tantalor on Friday August 31, 2012 @05:48PM (#4461835)
First two I tried led to different loops:

1. Elephant (Mammal ... Human)

2. Big Bang (Fact ... Truth)

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by pitchups on Friday August 31, 2012 @08:15PM (#4462233)
I think this works for any link, not just the first link.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by TapaJob on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:52AM (#4460194)
"Greg James" As in Radio one DJ.....Doesnt work!
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by dkroy on Friday August 31, 2012 @01:38PM (#4460761)
Are there any major articles that don't loop?
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by seangransee on Saturday September 01, 2012 @05:54PM (#4465268)
maybe not major, but the ones i've found so far that don't do it are

http://wikiloopr.com/home http://wikiloopr.com/chopsticks http://wikiloopr.com/monty%20python

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by seangransee on Saturday September 01, 2012 @05:56PM (#4465273)
also, anything that leads to marriage http://wikiloopr.com/dating
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by tomelders on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:50AM (#4460183)
Shakespeare - 28 links. My personal best.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by incision on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:31PM (#4460384)
MAF [1] - 30. Though, it's a bit of a cheat since the first page is surely disambiguation.

I also found M62 Locomotive [2] at 26 to be interesting.

1: http://wikiloopr.com/MAF

2: http://wikiloopr.com/M62%20locomotive

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by stevesearer on Friday August 31, 2012 @03:22PM (#4461252)
Gorgonzola achieved 43 - http://wikiloopr.com/Gorgonzola
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by menacingly on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:52AM (#4460196)
How does that get there slower than "fart" ??
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by zerostar07 on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:22PM (#4460345)
In another time it would lead to "God"
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by scurvyscott on Saturday September 01, 2012 @11:06AM (#4463885)
"booger" doesn't do it. Just sayin.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by milkshakes on Friday August 31, 2012 @02:04PM (#4460885)
ironically, starting at "strange loop" avoids the repetitive philosophical argument
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by pdx on Friday August 31, 2012 @02:23PM (#4460987)
That works because somebody is being funny, and created a self referential strange loop inside Wikipedia.

That's a good find you found. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_loops

Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by sp332 on Friday August 31, 2012 @02:32PM (#4461021)
Hofstadter was a genius, one of his books was called "I am a Strange Loop" and xkcd (jokingly) reported that his autobiography reads:

  I'm
  so
  meta
  even
  this
  acronym
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by RenierZA on Saturday September 01, 2012 @12:04PM (#4464096)
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by johanbev on Friday August 31, 2012 @03:34PM (#4461317)
I have to admit guilt here :-) Nice that someone found it too. +1 for GEB.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by zapt02 on Friday August 31, 2012 @06:07PM (#4461893)
TIL Wikipedia has a JSON API!
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by sixQuarks on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:11AM (#4460033)
"Honda" only goes 3 links
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by stigi on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:02PM (#4460255)
http://wikiloopr.com/home Home - Residence - Home
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by seangransee on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:18AM (#4460056)
i guess i could modify it to not include bold links. notice why it's stopping there... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_company
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by tomelders on Friday August 31, 2012 @11:45AM (#4460164)
As does London, but it's a proper loop.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by dhughes on Friday August 31, 2012 @02:49PM (#4461108)
"Lies" doesn't work.
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by dakimov on Friday August 31, 2012 @12:40PM (#4460445)
Wikipedia is a dense oriented graph, no wonder it has many cycles. What's the big deal?
Re:Show HN: Most Wikipedia articles lead to the same loop by DelvarWorld on Friday August 31, 2012 @09:37PM (#4462388)
Pseudodiarrhea gave me a unique loop.