Thing is, rational people have been pointing this out for a decade (at least). The spiral has much less to do with fundamentals than politics. And now that Elon and Trump are back at it, Tesla has both sides of the aisle suddenly scrutinizing the company

> spiral has much less to do with fundamentals than politics

Tesla’s brand has become trash in a year. I have a neighbour who had PowerWalls installed a few years ago. He spray painted over the branding last year because it was embarrassing. (I live in Wyoming.)

Your neighbor is weird

This isn't weird, really. Rational people tend to not like being associated with fascists, and with Elon at the helm Tesla is strongly associated with American Fascism at the moment.

> Rational people tend to not like being associated with fascists

This is fair, but I don’t even think it’s that. They just don’t want everyone walking into their garage to immediately associate them with Musk. This is true for folks on the left, who call out his fascism. But it’s also true if someone with MAGA leanings walks in.

My personal favorite is the Tesla apology bumper sticker. I want to signal I care, but I only care about 20$. Love the virtue signaling while driving round a 50k$ donation to Elon.

I have people posting long apologies on LinkedIn about how they needed a new car but they disagree with (insert rant). It’s embarrassing they even post it. No one on LinkedIn even needs to or cares to know what car you drive, it’s just platitude virtue signaling

> and with Elon at the helm Tesla is strongly associated with American Fascism at the moment

That's overblown. Telsa is strongly associated with an idiot who's so immature and stupid that he's managed to annoy pretty much everyone.

FWIW, I’ve covered the branding on everything in my house. I don’t need my home to be advertising corporate brands to me/family/guests.

For what it’s worth, I was putting in solar panels with battery back-up, and PowerWalls were the least-bulky option, and I killed it last year because again, I don’t want to have something that partisan (and frankly toxic) so close.

For a decade? The politics has been a recent problem. For a decade though Tesla has had serious production problems that were dismissable under "but they're ahead".

Except it hasn't happened - they still have trouble with QA and building enough cars cheaply enough, and now the market has caught up with them.

And then into this mix, Musk decided to publicly side with the political aisle which hates his core customer base and his core product line.

And more importantly his core customer base hates his chosen politics.

All of this to pave way for tax cuts for billionaires, cutting corporate tax rate.

Fucking parasites. This country truly needs a French Revolution and competent leaders.

Get these geriatric fucks out of office. And no more of this bullshit pseudoscience neoclassical economic theory used as basis of economic policy. Fuck reagonomics/trickle down economics.

That's pure propaganda, those numbers are wildly inflated

Say the number is inflated. How many attributable deaths is sufficient to be angry?

How much money should we spend to avoid every single death? Is the answer ∞?

What if it was not 14 million, but 14,000 deaths? Would that be ok with you?

The Lancet, which came up with the estimates, is an internationally respected publication https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

Also, ten separate global institutions co-authored this page -- is the conspiracy to inflate deathcount that wide-ranging? What factors on the Lancet's paper are you objecting to specifically?

a Institute of Collective Health, Federal University of Bahia, Bahia, Brazil b ISGlobal, Barcelona, Spain c Facultat de Medicina i Ciències de la Salut, Universitat de Barcelona, Barcelona, Spain d Paediatrics Department, Hospital Sant Joan de Déu, Universitat de Barcelona, Barcelona, Spain e Fundação Ariel Glaser, Maputo, Mozambique f Centro de Investigação em Saúde de Manhiça, Maputo, Mozambique g ICREA, Barcelona, Spain h Institut Clínic de Medicina I Dermatologia, Hospital Clínic de Barcelona, Barcelona, Spain i CIBER de Epidemiología y Salud Pública, Instituto de Salud Carlos III, Madrid, Spain j University of California, Los Angeles, CA, USA

The Lancet also said the Covid vaccine saved about 14 million lives instead of killing and injuring millions.

https://brownstone.org/articles/how-to-model-fallacy-accordi...

Major medical journals are no longer respected or respectable. You’d have a better track record being right believing the opposite of what peer-reviewed journal studies say, on average.

Anyone investing in Tesla at its current stock price is not doing so because of the success (or otherwise) of its automotive business. It’s a long-term gamble on autonomy solutions. The company would be worth 10 times more if they pull it off, but I give it a 10% chance of succeeding

Waymo is way ahead of them. I give them a 1% chance.

It is true that Waymo are currently ahead. Waymo's fleet is presently 1,500 vehicles with future plans for an additional 2,000 vehicles.

Tesla's robotaxi solution uses a near-stock Model Y. Tesla has the manufacturing capacity to produce over 5,800 Model Y vehicles per day.

I give them a greater than 1% chance.

Waymo doesn't need to produce a million cars. They need to dominate rideshare in the top 10 US cities, which gives them 90% of the ridehailing market. Then they license their technology into long-haul trucking, then eventually personal cars (with a subscription fee, obviously) to starve out their competitors.

Even 20k cars in one city is likely too many for them.