With exception of might be Russia very few of such countries actually ever arrest tourists. Worst that can happen they'll send you out and ban for life.
Being a citizen of authoritorian country is another story...
My last border crossing, a few days ago: "What was the purpose of your travel? ... What are you bringing back with you? ... Welcome home." Took one minute.
We are so nice to non-citizens in America that many of them actually do think they are legally a citizen's equal, except for voting rights. (I used to think that myself.) They are not.
I can think of several things that are more stupid, and for better or worse, border guards are dicks in a lot of countries.
Not even in my Top 100.
Out of that population which could fill a decent-sized country, how many people have been treated so unfairly as the one in this article? How do those stats compare with other countries, and the inevitable abuses that occur in any vast bureaucracy?
It's possible to oppose the current US administration and still retain your rationality.
Nope, tourism is tanking. There are numerous stories about tourists being detained for little to no reason and eventually deported.
Travel warnings from various international orgs like Amnesty International and other governments have been mounting since 2019. It also doesn't help when the president attacks the country that makes up a large portion of tourist like Canada.
World Travel & Tourism Council says international visitor spending is going to drop by $12.5bn this year (down 22.5%).
Even this comment in HN could put me into problems if the guard considers it harmful.
If a funny pic of a politician can put you into prision, the probably some messages you write in a WhatsApp group with friends, discussing world news, could mean serious problems.
I planned last year to stop off in Hawaii and Seattle on the way from NZ to the UK this May, but in March this year I altered that and just did Vancouver instead as the stop-off.
I know several friends and colleages who have also done similar (even two didn't go to weddings of friends in the US).
Yeah, good luck downplaying the 12+ billion the US tourism industry is about to lose this year.
Stop measuring dicks with America. It has a much larger population and economy, so you cannot win.
Searching for projections seems to indicate that our tourism industry will definitely be growing:
Canadian tourism is expected to increase in 2025. Key points include:
Canadian travel demand surged by 61% year-over-year, reflecting growing interest in adventure and sustainable tourism. 67% of Canadians plan to travel more in 2025, with many prioritizing lesser-visited destinations. Morocco and Egypt are increasingly popular among Canadian travelers seeking cultural immersion. Solo travel is on the rise, with 1 in 4 Canadians planning their first solo adventure. A devalued Canadian dollar could provide a significant boost to the sector by attracting more foreign visitors and their spending. Canada's revenue in the Travel & Tourism market is predicted to reach US$17.42bn in 2025, with a steady annual growth rate of 2.25%. Evolving domestic spending patterns are also contributing to measured growth in Canada's tourism industry.
Enjoy your fascist country - it is truly the "most free", right? Right?
Only something that's small, or in a recession, will grow 61% YoY.
And last time I visited Canada, this month, I was asked more questions on the Canadian side of the border than on the American one. Which is perfectly normal, given the fact that I had an American passport. Both interviews took 2-3 minutes, by the way. A lot of the sensational "news" are clickbait for the TikTok empty brain generation, who just swallows them hook, line and sinker.
Most people will never experience problems at the border, especially the kind who prepare and get informed ahead of time (I actually knew what items in what quantity I could bring back from Canada, and I did bring back beer for a friend, way above the 1L/person limit - the officer didn't even blink when I declared it). I have never had problems with border police or customs, even when I visited a couple of communist countries, maybe because I never lie to them, not even by omission.
As I said, stop measuring dicks with the US. It's a great country, just in a different way from Canada.
Zero, but that's not the same question. If something I think is unacceptable happens at a low rate, the fact that I think it's bad doesn't mean it's necessarily rational to change one's travel plans because of it, if the rate is low enough.
If I go to Iceland, there is some nonzero chance I'll be killed in a surprise volcanic eruption, but I wouldn't let that deter me from visiting Iceland.
The relatively high violent crime rate in US cities which was already present before the current administration is already a much more real reason not to visit the US than authoritarian border guards, although I'd argue even that would be a bit exaggerated.
As a tourist doing tourist things in the US, your risk of being involved in a violent crime is notably lower than an average US citizen, and your risk of being involved with a border guard is notably higher.
Why would you compare an unpredictable natural risk with one stemming from human behavior and government policy? This is like saying speeding limits are a bad idea because some people are killed by lightning.
By the way, I never said anything like "power tripping pro-MAGA border guards are okay because there are volcanoes in Iceland", so your lightning vs. speed limits analogy isn't relevant.
> Going to the USA as a tourist might be the most stupid action that one can make at this time. Unless you have a dying mother or father, there is absolutely no reason to visit this country. It reminds me of the tourists that used to go to North Korea for fun some years ago, it never was a good idea.
did not claim that one has a moral obligation to avoid the US, but rather tried to claim that it was stupid to do so from a purely rational perspective.
It’s the latter point I disagree with. People who avoid the US due to the possibility of personal harm by border guards are being irrational (unless perhaps they’re prominent pro-Palestinian activists).
I never said there’s no reason not visit the US. Avoiding it as a political protest against the current administration is a perfectly decent reason! But that’s not what was originally claimed.
The numbers are not a principle.
Pedantic, but if it is at entry rather than chasing people down afterwards, its probably CBP, not ICE. (CBP also does some chasing down afterward, too.)
And we don't really whether the JD Vance meme wasn't just the frosting on the cake. All we have is the tourist's word.
Ask people who have tried going to Canada from the US how welcoming border guards can be at their ports of entry. Say the wrong thing or try to cross with the wrong thing (in my friend's case, it was a set of tools used to repair electronics) and they will try to jam you up and deny entry.
I managed to save a few by arguing how ineffective as weapons they would be and then watch as two security staff try their best to pinch each other with wire strippers and such.
Canadian Border Guards then lectured me about responsible gun ownership, tore about my bags going "Since you don't keep track of your guns, let's find out if they are in your bags", went through my iPad movie content and finally was like "Ok, you are clear".
I've been back multiple times and since then, Scan Passport Check Computer STAMP PASSPORT Welcome to Canada.
However, when returning to the United States, even as a citizen (born, not naturalized), I have frequently faced questioning about my social graph, who specifically I have contacted, and things of that nature. I thought it was one dickhead guard in Vermont, but it keeps happening.
No qualms with your actual point, but immigration/customs is not the same thing as airport security, sorry but it's my pet peeve when people conflate them.
We haven't been there since this current administration took over, and have no plans on it until something changes.
Trumps comments regarding Canada, and the whole "51st state" rhetoric triggered the decision, but these stories absolutely play a part in it. I'm not about to put myself, or my family, in a position where someone might be detained for anywhere from days to weeks for no reason.
There's a big, beautiful world out there, and plenty of countries who are happy to have us and take our tourist dollars, all without me having to worry about getting detained for silly pictures on my phone. It's a pretty easy decision if you ask me.
Sure - America is a beautiful country, and people that I had met while on vacations and business trips were all very nice - I have driven thousands of miles (to/from Las Vegas from AB, Florida from ON) and never had a bad experience. But - unfortunately, the current political and cultural climate down there is just a little too "hot" - I hope it works out for the average person, but I don't have high hopes.
Why would you?
> Out of that population which could fill a decent-sized country, how many people have been treated so unfairly as the one in this article? How do those stats compare with other countries, and the inevitable abuses that occur in any vast bureaucracy?
Most people have an opinion about the US. They might have shared it on social media.
For comparison, the government of Turkey might care if you have insulted Erdoğan on social media (I don’t know; they might). But chances are you want to travel to Turkey while not having strong enough opinions to have flamed Erdoğan on social media. People care more about what they can see in Turkey; foreigners objectively spend more time on US political news than they spend thinking about the US national parks.
I'm quite sure that's their main job, finding out who are the adversaries of the regime.
We should just lecture our audience to keep their head on straight and come travel.
Given the repeated reports of international carriers cutting US routes due to lack of demand this year, I wonder why you would assume that the numbers this year are the same as two years ago?
> It's possible to oppose the current US administration and still retain your rationality.
Waving off new abuses isn't rationality (it's also not opposing the current administration, but the opposite, carrying water for them.)