Re:The Cultural Decline of Literary Fiction
by TimorousBestie on Sunday June 22, 2025 @12:04PM
(#44348007)
While I disagree that “the publishers went woke” is a salient reason (or even true in any real sense), I give the essay props for resisting the urge to reduce a very complicated problem down to a single causal factor.
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Re:The Cultural Decline of Literary Fiction
by peacebeard on Sunday June 22, 2025 @01:06PM
(#44348443)
Some better versions of this take might be “In the culture war many people are only willing to consume media that perfectly signals their virtues, so even innocuous content can seem antagonistic.” or “Our culture changed and I don’t like it anymore, get off my lawn.”
Re:The Cultural Decline of Literary Fiction
by MangoToupe on Sunday June 22, 2025 @01:18PM
(#44348539)
For the most part I think this culture war is a figment of the media's imagination/desire. I think people just don't want to read for the most part—even those who purchase the books.
Re:The Cultural Decline of Literary Fiction
by gherkinnn on Sunday June 22, 2025 @01:47PM
(#44348768)
I find the culture war to exist primarily in the minds of the terminally online.
Re:The Cultural Decline of Literary Fiction
by peacebeard on Sunday June 22, 2025 @05:27PM
(#44350440)
Maybe if you include "terminally watching the news on TV". But either way, it's a lot of people.
Re:The Cultural Decline of Literary Fiction
by hotmeals on Sunday June 22, 2025 @07:18PM
(#44351093)
Most TV news now is talking about stuff in Twitter and I Can't Believe It's Not Twitter.
Re:The Cultural Decline of Literary Fiction
by xhkkffbf on Sunday June 22, 2025 @01:39PM
(#44348705)
My issue with the wokeness is that it makes the stories very predictable. One race of characters is pretty much bad. The other race needs some saviorism. It's not the message of wokeness that is boring, but the repetitive and insistent manner in which it is delivered.
Not the message, but the fact there's little else besides the message to keep you interested.
As opposed, for example, to Richard Morgan's A Land Fit for Heroes. Where the main character is gay. He was persecuted for being gay. There are gay sex scenes.
However this is not what the book is about. Stuff is happening in that series. He's the hero of a decent story.
But then I'm talking about a fantasy series so it's not "literature" :)
Re:The Cultural Decline of Literary Fiction
by TimorousBestie on Sunday June 22, 2025 @02:51PM
(#44349330)
Was Tolkien woke? I wonder.
Re:The Cultural Decline of Literary Fiction
by MangoToupe on Monday June 23, 2025 @07:13PM
(#44361173)
Tolkien was super woke. He had men holding hands without wanting to fuck.
Re:The Cultural Decline of Literary Fiction
by MangoToupe on Monday June 23, 2025 @07:13PM
(#44361167)
> One race of characters is pretty much bad. The other race needs some saviorism. It's not the message of wokeness that is boring, but the repetitive and insistent manner in which it is delivered.
This doesn't seem to be "wokeness" (whatever that means) so much as "shallow writing pandering to an editor somewhere who is obsessed with race but has no education to grapple with it".
It seems to me pretty clear that the article is arguing that "wokeness made fiction crap" is really just the most current result of "authors are optimizing for critics and editors, who are competing for status, and neither are interested in producing stuff readers like".
Re:The Cultural Decline of Literary Fiction
by MangoToupe on Monday June 23, 2025 @07:12PM
(#44361159)
Just pointing out that publishers simply won't publish what doesn't cater to them, so we really can't measure what authors actually want to publish.