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Re:Ask HN: I have three good ideas. Help me choose idea 1, 2... by nailer on Sunday January 18, 2009 @01:14PM (#439495)
Agreed re: everything.

I have a fairly good idea of the competitors, as I've used most of them, and my ideas are much better than a good looking UI, and working policies - the fact that the largest security company in the world can't even supply those basic things makes me think the areas a good target.

Understood re: 50K sales, and agreed re: steak and stripper sales guy - I already have a guy in mind. Agreed re: long engagement - as an architect in my day job I'm on the other end of the coin daily.

In the general entrerprise space, I'd basically be a ServiceNow equivalent to Remedy - multipronged attack on an established competitor at 80% of the price.

Re:Ask HN: I have three good ideas. Help me choose idea 1, 2... by tptacek on Sunday January 18, 2009 @03:38PM (#439634)
Tell you what, though. If you want to sell this thing, what I'd do is, develop it and open source it:

* Enterprises will pay money for open source products. In fact, it's easier for them to pay for open source than to deploy it for free.

* IT people will bring open source stuff in house to play with it, which makes them your shadow sales force.

* It's really easy to qualify accounts for sales; just have an inside sales guy call up and ask if they use your OSS project and like it.

Re:Ask HN: I have three good ideas. Help me choose idea 1, 2... by tptacek on Sunday January 18, 2009 @02:03PM (#439528)
A little confused as to why you, as a sole founder with little hope of securing funding, would choose a direct sales product with a 4 month sales cycle. But, best of luck!
Re:Ask HN: I have three good ideas. Help me choose idea 1, 2... by nailer on Sunday January 18, 2009 @05:49PM (#439781)
I'm not sure why you don't think I could get a sales guy who owns a chunk of the company. Also conservative, non-ad revenue based products have a better chance of getting investment than the latest chance to make revenue from web services via the oversaturated ad sales market.

But thanks!

Re:Ask HN: I have three good ideas. Help me choose idea 1, 2... by gojomo on Sunday January 18, 2009 @02:55PM (#439583)
I wonder if there's a rule-of-thumb formula that can be applied. "Don't attempt a product with an N-month sales cycle unless you have a company of at least N*M employees."

I suspect M is closer to 10 than 0.25.

Re:Ask HN: I have three good ideas. Help me choose idea 1, 2... by skmurphy on Monday January 19, 2009 @03:24AM (#440227)
If you can leverage contacts to shorten the first few sales then a very small team (2-4 people) can endure the true sales cycle until you pick up momentum.
Re:Ask HN: I have three good ideas. Help me choose idea 1, 2... by tptacek on Monday January 19, 2009 @01:54PM (#440767)
If your contacts own the budget and purchasing, maybe. Otherwise, you're probably deluding yourself to think that personal relationships are going to cut the sales cycle on an enterprise product. The sales cycle on a securty product at a BigCo includes:

* Weeks of presentations and demos (this part you can cut with relationships)

* Weeks of pilot deployment, which in this guy's case will involve coordination between security, architecture, and server IT.

* Weeks of user education and training (something everybody forgets about).

* Weeks of back-and-forth about missing features and requirements.

* Weeks of negotiation for first PO, assuming all the previous stages went well.

* 3-5 months of delay waiting for receivables.

What friendships will do for you in this process is eliminate the hidden "in-between" steps where people get distracted by their real jobs for 1-3 weeks and don't return your phone calls. But most people don't have friends in BigCo's that can simply cut them checks.

Also, when you try to shop this to VC, most of them aren't going to be impressed by the demo and pilot deployments you've secured with your friends.

Re:Ask HN: I have three good ideas. Help me choose idea 1, 2... by skmurphy on Tuesday January 20, 2009 @08:24PM (#442575)
Most of the entrepreneurs we work with are over 35, and in many cases know and/or have worked with department managers and senior managers who own a budget and can influence purchasing. For the most part they are not selling applications that are mediated directly by IT in the way that a security app would be so some of the friction is taken out of the process. I do agree that for younger entrepreneurs in the security space you are offering a realistic scenario. My comment was more in response to team size vs. sales cycle than the overall thread, I should have been more specific.