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Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by xvector on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @07:35AM (#43770895)
It would be really cool if the EU managed to make a consumer tech industry on their own rather than rent-seeking from US tech via protectionist, gerrymandered laws.

It is absurd that websites are legally required to provide free services to EU users. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a "pay or get targeted ads" option - you are free to simply not use the site.

Same goes for iOS devices and the App Store. If you want to sideload, just get an Android device. There is no monopoly here.

Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by stavros on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @07:49AM (#43771012)
I'll be generous and assume you're being disingenuous by accident: This isn't about the ads, it's about the tracking. Meta is free to put ads wherever it wants, but it's not free to track people who don't want to be tracked.

In the end, a population has the right to govern itself how it wants. There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with that - Meta is free to simply not operate in the EU.

Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by xvector on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @07:54AM (#43771046)
Why shouldn't you allowed to track people across your own services if users consent? If they don't consent, they are free to simply not use your services. Problem solved.

There is no actual need for this law. No rights are being infringed on. Just don't use the website.

Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by stavros on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @07:57AM (#43771071)
Because that's how we like it, and that's the end of it. The people of the EU have said that these are the rules for doing business there, and saying "I should be able to murder people in my own house, if you don't want to be murdered, just don't come here, there's no need for anti-murdering laws" is rather irrelevant.
Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by pjc50 on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @08:42AM (#43771421)
> saying "I should be able to murder people in my own house, if you don't want to be murdered, just don't come here, there's no need for anti-murdering laws"

The Americans call this "stand your ground".

Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by stavros on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @08:44AM (#43771445)
Well, half "touché", half "precisely".
Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by xvector on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @01:08PM (#43774274)
Conversely, you can justify any authoritarian unjust law because "that's how we like it."

"Deporting brown people without due process? That's how we like it, who are you to complain? You're free to not work with the US, but we know you will!"

Obviously a nuanced and meaningful conversation goes much deeper than "that's how we like it." Why is it such an infringement on user rights to not be allowed to use a website if they don't follow the owner's terms of use? That is unaddressed.

Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by _Algernon_ on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @03:44PM (#43775943)
Funny choice of example considering that it is the US that is currently deporting people without due process.
Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by xvector on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @06:53PM (#43777525)
Yes, that is the precise example I used to demonstrate why "we like it that way" is not good policy. I don't get what's so funny.
Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by Fraterkes on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @08:05AM (#43771137)
Why doesnt this same logic apply to meta? They don't have to comply with this law if they don't want to, its their choice to operate in the EU
Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by nottorp on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @08:02AM (#43771110)
> across your own services

What are Facebook's own services? Or Google's for that matter.

Neither tracks you just when you're on facebook.com or google.com. They track you everywhere.

Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by _Algernon_ on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @10:31AM (#43772674)
This logic works just the same applied to Meta, without the requiring the expectation that Meta should be able to operate without following the law.

Why shouldn't Meta be forbidden to track people? It's the law. If they don't want to follow the applicable law in the jurisdiction they operate in they can cease their operations there.

Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by pjc50 on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @07:44AM (#43770970)
They could equally make the whole thing subscription-only, but they're not going to do that.
Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by devuo on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @08:28AM (#43771302)
US companies are free to not operate in Europe.

There's nothing special about US software engineering vs. software engineering made elsewhere from a purely technical and know-how point of view.

The key difference is availability of capital and appetite for risk that make US exceptional by enabling a speed of scaling and execution not possible anywhere else (well, other than China).

If US companies that can't be bothered to follow EU laws leave the +500M people market that is the EU, I'm positive some other equally competent alternative (local or otherwise) would appear sooner or later to fill in the gap.

Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by Workaccount2 on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @10:10AM (#43772449)
Perhaps the same regulations that US companies keep running afoul of are the regulations that prevent European investors from putting money behind European startup competitors.

The EU has some extremely strong consumer protection laws, which is excellent for consumers, but it comes with downsides too.

Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by disgruntledphd2 on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @11:12AM (#43773111)
> Perhaps the same regulations that US companies keep running afoul of are the regulations that prevent European investors from putting money behind European startup competitors.

Nah, it's all the capital which gets invested into the US caused by the dollar's role in international payments that drives the US exceptionalism is tech.

Like, 65% of world equity value relates to 4% of the world population. That's not sustainable long-term, and if something cannot go on forever, then one day it will stop (and we might be seeing that start to happen now).

Don't get me wrong, the US market has a bunch of advantages (large, one language, standard regulation) but it's mostly all the capital sloshing around that drives the outperformance of the US tech companies.

Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by xvector on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @07:27PM (#43777794)
You simply cannot dismiss the omnipresent differences in American and EU mindset/culture as playing a role in each country's entrepreneurial success and ability to build and scale innovations.

There is a huge culture difference: Having spent time in both countries, an entrepreneurial spirit is valued far more in American culture and is far more present than in the EU.

Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by disgruntledphd2 on Thursday April 24, 2025 @04:57AM (#43780594)
I don't disagree (apart from the fact that the EU is 27 countries, not one).

Which countries did you spend time in?

I would still maintain that the reason the US is more entreprenuerial right now is because it's easier to get capital (particularly for tech focused businesses). Now, some of that is because of previous tech exits, some of it is culture but to maintain that the differences in capital don't have a large impact is also pretty reductionist.

Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by rsynnott on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @08:54AM (#43771572)
> gerrymandered

This word doesn't simply mean 'I don't like this', you know.

Facebook is under no obligation to operate in Europe. Of course, they make about 40 billion revenue in Europe annually, so they will be inclined to want to stay in Europe. And they can do this! They just have to follow the rules.

Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by thrance on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @09:41AM (#43772069)
Blaming Europe for "rent-seeking" when enforcing basic consumer protections rules on those massive foreign-propaganda disinformation and wealth extraction engines really takes the cake. Fuck Meta, if it was up to me Facebook, Instagram and X would have been long gone from European soil. We gain nothing from them.
Re:Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law by socalgal2 on Wednesday April 23, 2025 @11:06AM (#43773060)
> If you want to sideload, just get an Android device. There is no monopoly here.

The Digital Markets Act is not about a user's right to sideload. It's about 100s of thousands of businesses' right to reach billions of users without Apple in the middle. That's why it's called the Digital Markets Act, not the Phone User Rights Act