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Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by ajb on Wednesday April 09, 2025 @02:58AM (#43629532)
Fascinating. I wonder if there will soon be a way to culture your mitochondria externally in order to give you extra, maybe it could help with diseases like chronic fatigue.
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by JPLeRouzic on Wednesday April 09, 2025 @03:45PM (#43636872)
Several implicit suggestions are made in the article, but I guess the largest application of externally cultivated mitochondria would be to aging.

Here is an article about this (future) technology:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5511681/

Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by perrygeo on Wednesday April 09, 2025 @05:01PM (#43637949)
Mitochondria doping! People are already thinking how to use it for sports performance. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/14/new-doping-trick...

Beyond athletic performance and chronic fatigue, some neurologists and psychiatrists have recently suggested that every mental disorder (literally, the entire DSM) has a single underlying cause: mitochondrial dysfunction. If that's true, mitochondria transplants could solve the mental health crisis.

Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by JPLeRouzic on Thursday April 10, 2025 @04:00AM (#43641726)
Why transplant? Mitochondria are constantly fusing and fissioning. Wouldn't it be better to provide mitochondria with a more comfortable environment to ensure they fission?
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by TheCraiggers on Thursday April 10, 2025 @08:53AM (#43643286)
Off the top of my head, I would imagine transplanting gives more control over the end result.
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by kthartic on Thursday April 10, 2025 @08:54AM (#43643297)
Re mental health - this is extremely interesting if it turns out to be correct. Thanks for sharing
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by SketchySeaBeast on Thursday April 10, 2025 @11:06AM (#43644581)
It seems like yet another misunderstanding of a series of complex problems by promising a simple one-stop solution. Maybe it'll work for some things, but it's also making claims that something like PTSD can be sorted out via a mitochondria flush, which doesn't make any sense to me.
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by staplers on Thursday April 10, 2025 @11:23AM (#43644819)
You'd be aiding in one-half of the issue though (environment/internal).
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by SketchySeaBeast on Thursday April 10, 2025 @12:07PM (#43645318)
Maybe that would help, but the claim is that mitochondrial dysfunction is the source of every "literally, the entire DSM" mental disorder, and that is an unbelievable claim, especially when the DSM runs the gamut from PTSD to Erectile Dysfunction to Caffeine Withdrawal. It says to me that it's a poorly considered claim.
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by perrygeo on Thursday April 10, 2025 @09:13PM (#43649478)
You sound very certain of yourself. Yet you cite no evidence at all except your gut feeling. Let's review these so-called "poorly considered claims":

(2014) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24845118/

"Evidence suggests that alterations in mitochondrial morphology, brain energy metabolism, and mitochondrial enzyme activity may be involved in the pathophysiology of different neuropsychiatric disorders"

(2021) https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8291901/

"we provide a focused narrative review of the currently available evidence supporting the involvement of mitochondrial dysfunction in mood disorders"

(2022) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36181925/

"Increasing experimental evidence supports a role for mitochondrial dysfunctions in neuropsychiatric disorders. "

(2024) https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01497...

"We summarize the existing literature on mitochondrial dynamics perturbations in psychiatric disorders/neuropsychiatric phenotypes"

While psychology today ain't a scientific journal, they provide an excellent summary, providing that evidence is both widespread and well known. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-therapy-center/2...

Dr. Chris Palmer's book "Brain Energy" is a good introduction to the body of research. Dozens of pages of citations, you can judge for yourself how well-considered they are. - "Mitochondrial dysfunction has been found in a wide range of diagnoses that include pretty much every symptom found in psychiatry".

"Pretty much every symptom" is not going hard enough. There has yet to be a single psychiatric symptom that isn't theoretically and empirically linked to metabolic dysfunction. The only symptoms he left out were the ones which have no published research!

And finally, just this week Forbes had a feature about it. Again, not a sci journal but there's enough interest to name it the "quiet revolution underway in psychiatry". https://www.forbes.com/sites/jessepines/2025/04/05/could-mit...

---

Do you still feel that the metabolic theory of mental illness is an unbelievable claim, poorly considered?

It may not be THE only answer. But at the very least, this theory is well supported with decades of research and deserves serious consideration.

Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by SketchySeaBeast on Friday April 11, 2025 @04:01PM (#43657917)
Yes, I still believe that saying it will cure every single condition in the DSM is a poorly considered claim. I am in no way qualified to evaluate every study, nor do I have access to them, but the fact that there are a lot of persuasive pop science books about it makes me more dubious, not less.
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by mbil on Thursday April 10, 2025 @08:58AM (#43643333)
Dr Casey Means has a thought provoking book on this subject Good Energy. It’s about how cell metabolic dysfunction could be implicated in a wide range of health conditions.
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by vintermann on Thursday April 10, 2025 @09:07AM (#43643399)
Doesn't sound like getting them into every cell in the body would be easy. If delivering a package with genes into every cell in the body was easy, viruses would be happy, figuratively speaking.

I just mapped mine, for what it's worth. A bit odd to have the whole 16000-something base pairs stored on my computer.

Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by devmor on Thursday April 10, 2025 @09:24AM (#43643539)
We already have mitoviruses, it stands to reason they they might adapt to infect mitochondria that are being delivered to cells.
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by blacksmith_tb on Thursday April 10, 2025 @01:48PM (#43646373)
We haven't found any mitoviruses in animals, yet, at least?

1: https://virology.ws/2019/03/28/viruses-that-infect-mitochond...

Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by devmor on Thursday April 10, 2025 @10:21PM (#43649902)
We have viruses in animals that reproduce using the mitochondria already, but don’t exclusively target the mitochondria. I believed these were categorized as mitoviruses but I was mistaken.
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by eecc on Thursday April 10, 2025 @12:27PM (#43645519)
How did you get that (and what guarantees on data privacy?)

I’d be very interested

Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by vintermann on Thursday April 10, 2025 @12:31PM (#43645565)
I used family tree dna. Not really much in the way of guarantees on data privacy as you'd expect (at least not from a software developer's perspective), but I figure it's challenging enough to abuse knowledge of my exact mitochondrial haplogroup, that if someone can do that, they can do worse anyway.
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by gsf_emergency_2 on Thursday April 10, 2025 @06:43PM (#43648693)
>Doesn't sound like getting them into every cell would be easy

>Viruses would be happy

As a programmer, I sometimes wondered at the value proposition of certain antiviral drugs, especially the ones that interfere with replication.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiviral_drug#Reverse_transcr...

Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by smilliken on Thursday April 10, 2025 @12:03PM (#43645275)
> suggested that every mental disorder (literally, the entire DSM) has a single underlying cause: mitochondrial dysfunction

On this topic, Brain Energy by Christopher Palmer: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61129785-brain-energy . Very interesting book, highest recommendation.

Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by perrygeo on Thursday April 10, 2025 @08:14PM (#43649178)
Read it earlier this year and I agree. Also, he's all over various podcasts and youtube channels if you'd rather watch.

What I got out of the book was two things:

* Mitochondria are freaking cool.

* The DSM is bollocks and metabolic dysfunction explains all mental illness.

Despite how radical the above sounds, the evidence for it is overwhelming. The book is largely an accessible tour of the evidence. It's well cited without being too academic.

And while Dr. Palmer is a prominent spokesperson for this movement, there are hundreds of other neurologists, psychiatrists and doctors on the same line.

Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by amy_petrik on Friday April 11, 2025 @01:02AM (#43650643)
it's a fascinating read however I believe most psychiatric disorders are traced not to the mitochondrion organelle, but rather, the midichlorians
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by LargoLasskhyfv on Friday April 11, 2025 @02:11AM (#43650951)
äye zännz ä dystürrbnännz in ze forrz
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by bitwize on Thursday April 10, 2025 @12:20PM (#43645454)
"Well, eet's no use crying over speeled mitochondria..." --Ren Höek

I don't think every mental health issue is traceable to mitochondrial dysfunction. But I'm pretty sure it's implicated in cardiovascular disease. Malfunctioning mitochondria can make your arteries more prone to inflammation which leads to greater lipid deposits. I even read somewhere (sorry, can't cite rn) that a major component of arterial plaques is bits of dead mitochondria.

Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by foxyv on Thursday April 10, 2025 @02:40PM (#43646895)
All I can think of right now is mental illness being caused by mitochondrial dysfunction and Parasite Eve. With the way the 21st century has been going to far, spontaneous human combustion would just seem like par for the course.
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by Ericson2314 on Thursday April 10, 2025 @03:29PM (#43647292)
https://www.sir.advancedleadership.harvard.edu/articles/brai...

Ugh, it might be true, but hits all the self-help scam stereotypes, and breathless paradigm-revolution science journalism stereotypes.

Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by pretzellogician on Thursday April 10, 2025 @11:14AM (#43644691)
This is what Matrix Bio wants to do, in fact! https://mitrix.bio/

"The goal is to produce bioreactor-grown mitochondria on an industrial scale, sufficient to supplement every person over the age of 55"

Although it might be preferential to get, say, properly genotyped mitochondria from champion horses!

Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by abecedarius on Thursday April 10, 2025 @12:10PM (#43645338)
Interesting -- you can keep mitochondria alive outside of cells? Are there papers on what they need for that?
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by bitcoin_anon on Thursday April 10, 2025 @12:49PM (#43645766)
In the meantime, read Good Energy to learn how to care for your mitochondria.
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by kridsdale3 on Thursday April 10, 2025 @02:28PM (#43646768)
TLDR?

Edit: The key suggestions, according to a bot and condensed by me:

- Eat healthy.

- Sleep healthy.

- Exercise healthy.

- Try Intermittent Fasting to promote autophagy / mitophagy.

Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by spudlyo on Thursday April 10, 2025 @03:07PM (#43647106)
Do all these things, cultivate meaningful relationships, avoid anxiety and drug abuse and you’ll be well on your way to becoming an optimal version of yourself.
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by VeninVidiaVicii on Thursday April 10, 2025 @06:13PM (#43648537)
Oh is that all?
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by spudlyo on Thursday April 10, 2025 @06:49PM (#43648722)
Sadly not. That mostly just covers your body and emotional well-being. You have to nurture your mind as well, which is beyond the scope of my pithy aphorisms.
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by stevenwoo on Friday April 11, 2025 @03:52AM (#43651430)
Maybe the first half of the book, the second half sells her company’s services really hard, very much aimed at customizing for each patient and staving off common American health problems. She has some tests not in the standard blood screens she thinks should be in there to give you personalized nutrition advice, she does reference Robert Lustig’s work and research a lot in first half.
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by BizarroLand on Thursday April 10, 2025 @06:41PM (#43648682)
There are some supplements that seem to cause an increase in mitochondria in the body, but if you are not deficient in mitochondria I think they won't do much good for you.
Re:Cells are swapping their mitochondria. What does this mea... by M95D on Friday April 11, 2025 @07:50AM (#43652780)
There's a novel, video game and film: Parasite Eve.