Right. Fantastic keyboards. Nothing comes close in recent laptops.

Older ThinkPad (pre-2008) snob checking in. The only recent laptops with decent keyboards (that I have found) are from MNT Research.

https://mntre.com/

It's great that they are mechanical and haven't forsaken contours, but since we're among old snobs... sigh I'll never get that "lets shove everything together into a sea of keys" layout (so prevalent in the mechakeyboard scene nowadays as well).

All those off-center keys have been grouped, offset and/or specially shaped since ages for a reason - to immediately and unambiguously settle your fingers there with minimal error when you have to move you hand away from the homerow anyway.

isn't the x1 carbon keyboard basically the same?

Nope, the 520, 420, 220 had a different design

Curious, what's great about it?

Many things. The feel is different (typing is more pleasant - hard to describe but it's clear when you compare them next to each other's), it has one more keyboard row, and I also like the fact that there is a color scheme: some keys pop out visually so it's easier to differentiate the keys compared to most keyboards nowadays where everything is black and boring.

Similar situation here, with W520. My fantasy for Framework 16 is to have extended hinges and thick bezel available that would lift the screen further from the keyboard deck, and of course an upgraded keyboard available with longer travel and contoured keys (and better arrow key layout).

Are you listening, Nirav?

(Yes, I know it would make the laptop slightly thicker and heavier. But I just said I'm using a W520, and happy with it...)

The arrow key layout makes Framework a non-starter for me. Full height L and R keys sucked shit on the touchbar MacBook Pros so bad that even Apple acquiesced to common sense and went back to the inverted T.

I use those keys heavily, and was hoping they'd fix it in the 16. Sadly, no. Their keyboard connector layout seems to make it difficult to have a keyboard with more rows, so having a layout with the bottom 3 arrow keys in a new row seems unlikely. But what about a touchpad module that has 3 (or 4) arrow keys on it?

Still, it's not a complete nonstarter for me, because the 16 does have that optional keypad. I could actually start using the numlock key again.

Or just half height the left and right keys? It’s what Apple used to do before they tried this crap design on the touchbar MacBooks, then went to after they realized their mistake.