There are hard core Kindle users who stick to models with physical page turn buttons too. And who am I to call them wrong?

They said this in 2023 Volkswagen Will Bring Back Physical Buttons in New Cars (397 points, 324 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38694886

time to release a new blackberry

Funnily, many automotive systems run QNX the blackberry OS.

Automotive industry is what is keeping QNX (if not Blackberry as a whole) alive.

I'm surprised Ford or some other major user hasn't just acquired the company outright.

Discussed on 08-march-2025

Volkswagen reintroducing physical controls for vital functions

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43298271

367 comments

The Return of common sense. Let's keep the trend going!

Physical buttons alone don't solve the problem.

Have a relatively new Subaru, if I don't wait long enough after turning on the car, the front and rear defrost buttons won't register that I pushed them (my son thought I was crazy until he had the same issue).

Similar story with the windows down buttons. I'll push them all the way down (past the detent), but if the car hasn't been running long enough, it won't register.

Almost as bad as no physical buttons. Infuriating when you take a specific action, don't get a response, and have to do it again.

My RAM truck's unlock buttons are like that. It often won't register the first unlock and I have to press the button on the inside of the front driver or passenger door a second time.

Got this issue in my ‘24 Camry with the volume. If I had the music cranked up previously and then I turned on the car there’s a lag before you can turn off or turn down the volume. I love the CarPlay feature, but I also miss good old 90s era aftermarket radios.

My Toyota has the same problem, if you turn on the car and hit the bottoms before the infotainment boots up the lights will turn on but the defrost won’t start

fwiw, tesla, the biggest "no physical buttons" company, does not have this problem at all. it's always very responsive, window buttons always work, there's no "startup" delay at all.

so i guess the choice is between companies that do tech poorly (legacy automakers) and one that does it right but with a big touch screen.

BMW does tech pretty damn well. Even though they're throwing everything on a screen nowadays, at least the screen is extremely responsive and (once you're used to it) quick to navigate

this is because the cars are pieces of crap.

I wonder why car companies won't make a "hybrid" of physical/virtual buttons? What I mean is you will still have a row of physical buttons and dials on your dashboard, but you will now be able to program them for different functions. Someone might prefer a dial adjust the climate control while others might use that same dial to adjust the radio volume.

This sounds like a really bad idea.

This is the same problem all over again.

Some BMWs had something like that but for the infotainment, in 20+ years working on cars never seen one that was not on the default settings. People doesn’t read manuals, this is like the VCR or Microwave clock perma-flashing 12:00

It might be OK if you can also program the icon that is drawn on the button.

Every time this happens, I have to wonder if this is just a test of courage for automakers. There was no reason practically all of them had to have a go at removing all the buttons and replacing them with poor substitutes before realizing that physical buttons are neat, and we should keep them around, right?

>There was no reason practically all of them had to have a go at removing all the buttons and replacing them with poor substitutes

Yes, the reason is cutting costs and adding “wow factor” to the design. Like teslas “Look ma, no dashboard!” Much futuristic - very cheap.

Yeah, so basically a test of courage. "Can we get away with this?"

It’s basically what H.L Menken said “Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public.”

I've test drived new VW cars and their ux is indeed quite bad. But this is because *their ux is quite bad*, not because of fundamental problems in the idea.

A buttonless Tesla works just fine, although they have also went too far in the latest models.