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Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by ahwelitif on Thursday February 20, 2025 @06:49PM (#43122123)
There's so much partisan noise about DOGE going around -- At this point, I don't know what to believe anymore. Elon lies constantly, abuses employees, backstabs partners, and is probably a racist; At the same time, his companies have created seemingly impossible/fantastic technologies/tools that have changed the world forever.

Is DOGE a genuine effort at desperately needed reforms to save America from bankruptcy? Is it a secret plot to take full control of the federal government like a dictator's coup? Is it a mix of both at the same time (ie; recent Saudi and Chinese 'anti-corruption' campaigns)?

What should I believe?

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by bithive123 on Thursday February 20, 2025 @07:06PM (#43122323)
Well, we know can't be to "save America from bankruptcy" because as a currency issuer, the federal government of the USA can't go bankrupt the way a currency user like a corporation or state government might.
Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by johng on Thursday February 20, 2025 @07:15PM (#43122400)
It can go bankrupt in the same way that Zimbabwe did with hyperinflation... even losing the USD as the world currency would be catastrophic. So yes, we can very much go bankrupt.
Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by bithive123 on Thursday February 20, 2025 @07:22PM (#43122456)
Respectfully, this is not accurate. Zimbabwe's debts were not denominated in their own currency. You are repeating a claim which has been debunked for decades, and is based on a misunderstanding of how our monetary system works.
Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by invalidname on Friday February 21, 2025 @12:19AM (#43124284)
Yes. But an important key fact here is that this is true as long as the USD is the world currency. It's the world currency since the US is the global super-power both in international support and military strength.

By cutting spending on foreign countries the US is forcing these countries to turn elsewhere for aid which will come in the currency of the new provider and with strings attached. This can cause a domino effect which will significantly weaken the USDs standing and force the US to take up "real" debt.

DOGE could very well bankrupt the USA if they aren't careful. They don't seem careful or self-aware.

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by soco on Friday February 21, 2025 @04:04AM (#43125556)
"buy when there's blood on the streets" - I definitely hope this is not their actual plan.
Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by TransAtlToonz on Friday February 21, 2025 @01:43AM (#43124695)
Who are you trying to reason with? Why are you not seeking power? How do you think American society works?

Like who would even claim american bankruptcy as a bad thing? Are you even american if you don't declare bankruptcy? We were founded on incompetency and we will die by incompetency.

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by timetraveller26 on Thursday February 20, 2025 @07:00PM (#43122260)
I get ya, but if one could apply some kind of Occam's razor is hard to defend DOGE's approach after all the mishandlements, false discoveries, bullying,and dangerous firings.
Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by tyronehed on Thursday February 20, 2025 @08:16PM (#43122913)
News for you. Elon Musk is not an engineer. Elon Musk does not know computer science. Yes, he's able to read books and learn subjects but he has never worked as a software engineer in any professional setting. You attribute competence to him in so many areas where he does not deserve it.
Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by soulofmischief on Thursday February 20, 2025 @06:52PM (#43122163)
You should believe what your eyes and ears tell you, after corroborating multiple sources and reading accounts of or speaking with people who have been directly affected by what's happening. Read Project 2025, the playbook is out in the open.

All of this is going to require critical thinking skills and unfortunately you can't gain that by reading tips. Assuming you do gave critical thinking skills, it's pretty clear what's taking place and that soft truths are often used to hide deep lies.

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by krapp on Thursday February 20, 2025 @06:55PM (#43122206)
You shouldn't depend on others to dictate your beliefs to you. You're allowed to believe whatever you like.
Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by billev2k on Thursday February 20, 2025 @07:49PM (#43122709)
Though it doesn't matter how fervently you believe. The universe doesn't care.
Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by krapp on Thursday February 20, 2025 @08:11PM (#43122873)
Sure but this is a discussion forum and nihilism makes for uninteresting conversation.

And people are invested in their lives and welfare even if all we are is dust floating blindly through the void of an uncaring universe, or whatever.

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by jaennaet on Thursday February 20, 2025 @08:53PM (#43123161)
How is it "nihilist" to say that objective reality doesn't care about your beliefs?

I can believe the sky is pink until I'm blue in the face. The sky won't change colors because of it.

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by scarface_74 on Thursday February 20, 2025 @06:52PM (#43122164)
What “impossible goals”? It’s easy just to randomly fire people, act illegally and not to think of the downstream consequences. Any private CEO would have his head handed to him by handling things do ham fistedly
Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by ahwelitif on Thursday February 20, 2025 @07:11PM (#43122361)
I edited my comment to be more clear.

As an ethnically Syrian person, Elon Musk has posted enraging racist epithets about me every single day on his Twitter. I strongly dislike him as a person for his firehose of slander against helpless refugees who aren't so privileged/fortunate as me. Look at how he is speaking towards poor Ukraine!

Despite this, his companies have without a doubt changed the world. His investments into e-banking, reusable rockets, mass market EVs, ChatGPT, Starlink, green energy, etc. sound like something from a comic book into how outsized an impact they make.

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by scarface_74 on Thursday February 20, 2025 @07:14PM (#43122389)
He threw money at the problem? Are you really giving him credit for ChatGPT?
Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by ahwelitif on Thursday February 20, 2025 @07:26PM (#43122484)
Yes, he threw money to build up teams to solve hard problems. According to this Wikipedia article he was a co-chair of OpenAI when it was founded in 2015: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenAI#:~:text=A%20total%20of%... I'm open to being wrong on that though.
Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by scarface_74 on Thursday February 20, 2025 @08:34PM (#43123051)
According to your citation, there was a total of $130 million invested between 10 people.

He wasn’t actually involved in any of the engineering ir decision making or putting the team together.

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by ahaisncixnsb on Thursday February 20, 2025 @07:00PM (#43122257)
DOGE may be genuine but while the fed exists and money is a commodity, it’s really kinda moot. Yes there’s awful wasteful spending in the government but it’s peanuts compared to devaluing your labor by ~3% annually to enable a debt based economy. Try to pull off fractional reserve banking in any other context and you’ll be called a cheat and a thief.

DOGE is yet another distraction to keep the left and the right bickering while the billionaires continue to grow the wealth gap. The dollar is the global currency and its monetary policy is set by private entities that don’t care much about the other 99.99% of us - just enough to keep a revolt from happening.

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by TransAtlToonz on Thursday February 20, 2025 @06:59PM (#43122248)
> partisan

Fuck the democrats and fuck the democrats for the last forty years. This still sucks ass. The people doing this have utter contempt for the people who live here.

EDIT:

> At the same time, his companies have created seemingly impossible/fantastic technologies/tools that have changed the world forever.

There may be a reversal of causation going on here. It may be that Musk is attracted to successful companies, in which case he is at best an investor, and at worst a parasitic grifter. I see no evidence that he actually adds value compared to other competent people of average competancy. I certainly see no justification for him rampaging about our society destroying most of what remains of a state I actually am willing to associate with. Finally, I see extremely negative value in tying our state to a person who owns the thing that makes a critical asset (rockets). I'd much rather kick him out of our society in order nationalize the talent that we actually benefit from. Hell the employees would probably get a pay increase and we'd get a tax cut and only investors would be off worse (who gives a shit).

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by nathanaldensr on Thursday February 20, 2025 @08:34PM (#43123049)
Only believe what you can verify with your own two eyes; otherwise, you leave yourself open to manipulation from propaganda. We live in a post-truth era. Embrace it!
Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by unsnap_biceps on Thursday February 20, 2025 @09:49PM (#43123436)
The one common thread with elons companies and their success is that it strongly appears the more he is prevented from having direct control, the better they do. He has direct control of doge so it's going pretty poorly.
Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by JohnTHaller on Thursday February 20, 2025 @10:03PM (#43123530)
Considering the COBOL Metre date screw-up, it's pretty obvious that the folks doing this don't understand the most basic underpinnings of the systems they're poking and prodding.

For those who missed it, DOGE claimed there were tons people who were about 150 years in the system. In actuality, the the default date in COBOL is May 20, 1875 (the date of the Metre Convention) which works out to about 150 years old.

Elon Musk publicly stated: "cursory examination of Social Security, and we got people in there that are 150 years old. Now, do you know anyone that's 150? I don't know. They should be in the Guinness Book of World Records... So that's a case where I think they're probably dead."

That's how little Musk understands about computer systems he's supposedly responsible for analyzing. And Elon has publicly stated he'll often be wrong wrt DOGE.

EDIT: Elon also posted a Tweet showing age buckets, but according to other Social Security Association folks, they didn't filter out dead people or non-recipients. When you do, only 89,106 are aged 99+. Less than the number of living centenarians in the US: https://x.com/justinwolfers/status/1891678450487841007

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by gs17 on Thursday February 20, 2025 @11:22PM (#43124009)
That whole thing was debunked AFAIK. Well, it kind of self-debunked since the original tweet that was posted as a reply to said "over 150 years old", not "exactly slightly under 150 years old", and "a number in ISO8601 format", but see e.g.: https://iter.ca/post/1875-epoch/ DOGE has plenty of ways to demonstrate ineptitude without us making some new ones up.
Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by JohnTHaller on Thursday February 20, 2025 @11:26PM (#43124030)
It was debunked, but to show Elon's bucket list was also poorly compiled by folks who don't understand the database they are pulling from: https://x.com/justinwolfers/status/1891678450487841007
Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by gs17 on Thursday February 20, 2025 @11:37PM (#43124076)
I believe you're still within the edit timer for that comment, please help reduce the spread of misinformation.
Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by reustle on Thursday February 20, 2025 @10:17PM (#43123622)
If this post is accurate (big if), wouldn't it prove that theory false?

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891350795452654076

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by JohnTHaller on Thursday February 20, 2025 @11:18PM (#43123985)
"And here's the number of RECIPIENTS of social security in each age bucket with the death field set to false (and recipient set to true). A mere 89,106 are aged 99+, not the tens of millions suggested by @elonmusk."

https://x.com/justinwolfers/status/1891678450487841007

Also Elon's other Tweet is: "Yes, there are FAR more “eligible” social security numbers than there are citizens in the USA. This might be the biggest fraud in history."

Lawful permanent residents (LPRs), asylees (noncitizen who has been granted asylum in the United States), refugees, some temporary non-immigrants, etc all get social security numbers. Elon doesn't appear to research much before posting and has publicly stated that he'll often be wrong with respect to everything DOGE.

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by bargl on Thursday February 20, 2025 @10:21PM (#43123650)
Yeah this is the part I find hard to suss out. If they said we have people who are 104 and the next oldest is 150 holy shit. That's case closed, but the link you sent makes me suspicious of the bias on the other side...

I agree with original comment. I just don't know who to trust to do a deep enough dive to give me good information.

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by gs17 on Thursday February 20, 2025 @11:25PM (#43124028)
This page I found ( https://iter.ca/post/1875-epoch/ ) had a link to some data from SSA: https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v71n4/v71n4p33.html , and the "Individuals by YOB" section does indeed not show anything special about 1875 (and has people from before then).
Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by Banned_IT on Sunday February 23, 2025 @06:15PM (#43154162)
Garbage in, Garbage out! The data is entered in by SS employees (basic data entry). Several scenarios plausible!

Could be that someone is fairly receiving a payout, but the birthdate was keyed in incorrectly & never corrected (a one key error of "1875" instead of 1975"...would make the person 150 years old instead of 50).

The DB should have had safeguards to avoid this.

And no deduplication is just asking for problems!!!

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by thefz on Friday February 21, 2025 @02:09AM (#43124886)
> his companies have created seemingly impossible/fantastic technologies/tools

His engineers/employees... not him.

Besides, I'd be wary of calling electric cars "seemingly impossible/fantastic".

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by pragmatic on Friday February 21, 2025 @09:24AM (#43127772)
"his companies have created seemingly impossible/fantastic technologies/tools that have changed the world forever."

What would those be?

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by ryandvm on Friday February 21, 2025 @09:42AM (#43127968)
I mean, SpaceX has revolutionized satellite launching, but that's about it. The rest of Phony Stark's success is mostly about being a hype man in the right place at the right time.

For years he coasted on the reputation of being a dorky, space/environment obsessed autist, but in the last few years it's become obvious that most of his admirable traits were just him masking. Now that he doesn't feel that's necessary we're seeing what happens when the richest man in the world swallows the red pill and it ain't pretty.

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by srid on Friday February 21, 2025 @09:42AM (#43127973)
> What should I believe?

For one thing, do not blindly believe what you read here on Hacker News, where there is a clear anti-Musk slant. I'd recommend more rational places like https://www.themotte.org/ where these topics can be discussed in a relatively calm manner. You are likely to come up with more informed opinions than otherwise.

Re:DOGE employees don't understand the basics of SQL by gaganyaan on Friday February 21, 2025 @09:58AM (#43128165)
That site is also calling out Musk for being a Nazi-saluting fascist, which is a good thing.

It's not anti-Musk to believe what he says about himself. You should re-examine why you feel the need to push your own slant.