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Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by impulser_ on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @04:14PM (#42955235)
They aren't. They are informing the President and the President does it either by EO or asking congress.
Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by outside1234 on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @04:30PM (#42955458)
The president can't decide to stop spending money Congress has passed by EO.
Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by buzer on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @05:15PM (#42956062)
That sounds weird. I can understand that you cannot take money that was promised for thing X and spend in thing Y but if you can reduce the X spending I don't think there is any issue.

Now I do not know if Congress has explicitly required X to provide certain thing. If they did then there might be some issue if X fails to provide it. It's probably easy to say someone is accountable for it if it's something objective (let's say building for Congress) but if it's subjective it could get tricky.

Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by llamaimperative on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @06:19PM (#42956775)
No, the executive is not allowed either to redirect or to stop or slow the Congressionally apportioned funds.

This is called impoundment and it's unequivocally illegal.

Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by buzer on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @06:26PM (#42956853)
No wonder everyone always tries to figure out how to spend money if they still have some left before end of the fiscal year. Some individual "I saved us $1 million by shutting down servers we don't use!" Manager "Fuck, now need to quickly figure out some way to spend $1 million..."
Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by llamaimperative on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @06:34PM (#42956925)
That's a much more mundane bureaucratic imperative that exists at every level in every budgeted system. But yeah, that more mundane imperative definitely doesn't help to control costs in the next budget cycle, for sure.
Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by outside1234 on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @06:35PM (#42956938)
Most of the US Government spending is on things that are fairly fixed and fairly known. There isn't a lot of elastic spending like this, or at least not in a way that really turns a dial.
Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by polski-g on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @07:15PM (#42957301)
Correct. But Congress doesn't and didn't ever say "spend $250k on transgender operas." Congress' laws are ambiguous and rely on the administrative state to dish out money to a specific cause. The law probably said something like "promote health policy in the Europe".

The Trump administration will repurpose those funds to things more aligned with GOP preferences.

Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by kemayo on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @04:31PM (#42955471)
President doesn't have authority to shut them down by EO either. Congress does, yes.

(It's one of those "power of the purse" things. If Congress has created an organization and funded it, the executive is required to spend that money on it.)

Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by paulvnickerson on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @04:49PM (#42955732)
> President doesn't have authority to shut them down by EO either

I'm not sure they are being shut down. USAID is being restructured for instance and folded into the State Department.

Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by kemayo on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @05:11PM (#42956023)
I imagine the legality of that depends on the exact details of the law that created the organization. If it specifies that it be an independent organization, then that's probably not allowed either. If it's just "these things must be done" then State could probably handle it.

(Either way, the exact approach they've taken so far with the total freeze and shutdown, then later saying they'll totally start doing the job again somewhere else later on, seems sketchy.)

Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by mrtesthah on Thursday February 06, 2025 @09:00AM (#42962366)
The state dept issued an evacuation order for all USAID staff overseas. How will they accomplish their mission? This includes medical care and distribution of HIV medication to up to 20 million people.
Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by Ancapistani on Thursday February 06, 2025 @09:51AM (#42962900)
Why are American taxpayers paying for medical care and HIV medication for 20 million people?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those people foreign nationals as well?

Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by kemayo on Thursday February 06, 2025 @10:54AM (#42963573)
You can certainly disagree with whether we should be doing it, but the fact remains that Congress made a law saying that we are doing it. The vehicle for changing that is to change the law, not for the President to decide to break the law.

On a separate note, assuming that "it's good to help people if you can" doesn't move you, the cynical reason for USAID's existence is marketing and soft power projection. For a tiny fraction of the US budget, we get to look good for how nice we're being to people, and get other countries to want us to come in and get our hands all over their infrastructure until it'd be painful for them to oppose us and lose that aid.

(Also, HIV specifically? That's something where lowering the levels of it in foreign countries will directly help the US, because it makes it less likely that US citizens will get exposed to it when people travel.)

Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by nickthegreek on Thursday February 06, 2025 @10:26AM (#42963253)
Because we elected representative who then funded these soft power initiatives. That’s how democracy works.
Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by rexpop on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @01:52AM (#43009765)
Unrelated: The hakenkreuz (swastika) was used by German nationalists and "Aryan" supremacists as early as the late 1800s, and was quite popular, even used by the Wandervogel. The swastika officially became the emblem for the Nazi Party on August, 7, 1920, so your quilt is almost certainly an Aryan quilt, and possibly an official Nazi one.
Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by Ancapistani on Wednesday February 19, 2025 @02:24AM (#43099541)
Heh - I can’t find the original comment here, but I remember it.

My grandparents have passed away, so I’ll need to track down exactly who has that quilt now. I know it came over to the US with their parents (my great-grandparents) when they immigrated, and that it was pre-Nazi-party for sure.

It may very well be associated with the false mythology that was adopted by the Nazis. I don’t think so, but it’s been a long time since it was new. No one who was there when it was made is still alive, nor is anyone who knew them well. I’ve not seen anything about that side of my family that would lead me to believe that they were ever sympathetic to that cause, but it’s entirely possible that it was hidden, not shared with the next generation, or otherwise just lost to time.

… but now I’m curious, and will have to figure it out :)

Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by impulser_ on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @05:28PM (#42956239)
Yeah, that why I said both. It depends on what they are doing. USAID probably needs congress, but other things might just need an EO. The point is DOGE isn't doing this, the President is. Elon doesn't have authority that Democratics are saying he does. He simply informs the President, "Hey, USAID is spending taxpayers money to fund xyz in xyz you might want to shut it down". The President then goes "Yeah, I think we should shut it down let's freeze it and we'll abolish it". Then they go down the path of abolishing it and with the USAID they will probably get congress to do it. Until then they can freeze it because he appoint Marco Rubio has the acting admin.
Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by exceptione on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @06:07PM (#42956672)
> He simply informs the President,

That man is way too friendly. Just before the election he gave $300.000.000,00 to Trump. And he is so special, eh! He can read air-gaped, highly sensitive data that no one should see from government systems, just using his mind/indoctrinated minions. I hate it when people speculate this might have to do, amongst things, with dark money to be made in intelligence/elite level international crime.

Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by impulser_ on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @06:52PM (#42957100)
Neither him nor Trump ever hid what Elon was going to do if Trump was elected. Unlike other donators of both parties, we always knew what Elon's goal was. He literally spent the last year on Twitter tweeting about it.

Many people, especially libertarians, voted for Trump for this exact reason.

Yeah, you might think he shouldn't have access to these system but it's the President, who the majority of the people voted for, that has the authority to grant him access, or ask for access from the appoint leaders of these departments.

Everyday when he posts list of things the US government is spending money on the more people are backing Elon in this endeavor.

Go here https://x.com/DOGE and read some of the things we are paying for and you tell me that we should be spending money on it.

Yeah, you might think he up to something bad but you would have always thought that because you don't like him.

Are you sure he's not just an American who cares about the US and doesn't want it too head into a death spiral from massive amount of debt with no one brave enough to stop it because it might cause them to lose an election?

Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by exceptione on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @07:15PM (#42957302)
I think you are really young, so I am going to give you advice instead: do not open X, it fuels you adrenaline, but it is a trap for the gullible.

If you have honest policies, there is no need to ddos the democratic system, and it certainly does not require a bunch of insanely spoiled Accelerationist billionaires and the killing of science.

Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by braebo on Thursday February 06, 2025 @04:18PM (#42966589)
The amount of tax money that goes to the rich in tax cuts, loopholes, and subsidies makes cutting humanitarian aid, school lunches, and your grandmas Medicaid for “efficiency” purely evil nonsense.

We already have departments for improving and reforming spending. Elon and MAGA are inundating you with bad faith justifications for what is ultimately a goal to fund their next round of tax breaks before they expire this year using the working and middle classes as livestock.

[dead]
Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by jacobr1 on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @05:10PM (#42956004)
> DOGE is private citizens giving their opinions about how the government should work to a politician who happens to be listening to them

No, DOGE was formalized as a division of the US Digital Service. Employees of DOGE are federal government employees. Some of them, like Elon are "Special Government Employees" which is a short-term category and avoids certain disclosures.

Creating DOGE and enabling them to have access to certain IT systems is legal ... but what data, how much control they have, what they can demand of other departments is subject to all sorts of laws and controls which may or may not be being followed at the moment.

Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by lupusreal on Thursday February 06, 2025 @08:46AM (#42962234)
Okay, so these citizens are federal employees. Guess what, the First Ammendment still gives them the right to tell politicians what they should be doing.
Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by nickthegreek on Thursday February 06, 2025 @10:28AM (#42963266)
No one said they didn’t have a 1st amendment right.
Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by code_runner on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @07:01PM (#42957181)
This is easily the most willfully uninformed take on this topic I have seen yet
Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by svachalek on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @06:15PM (#42956730)
Citizens voicing their opinion don't usually have unlimited access to government databases.
Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by rastignack on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @04:41PM (#42955594)
Then, the president is acting illegally, and not doge ?
Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by zzzeek on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @04:33PM (#42955499)
neither have happened and virtually all employees of USAID have been put on leave at the orders of the acting deputy administrator.

(via CNN) - It is not legal for the president to unilaterally “abolish, move, or consolidate USAID”. He needs to have congressional authorization to do so.

Re:Doge Staff Stop Using Slack as Agency Transitions to Syst... by impulser_ on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @05:25PM (#42956180)
The current acting deputy administrator is Marco Rubio who the Secretary of State. The Secretary of State works directly for the President.

The President hasn't shut down the USAID yet. They just froze it with the intent to abolish it.